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Post by sanmenxia on Dec 10, 2005 17:48:50 GMT
I’ve noticed the most expensive erhus (esp. those sold to foreigners) tend to have the maker’s name engraved on them. Does that mean that the maker him/herself actually made the erhu from start to finish? Or are these makers more like a brand name or a marketing device? Perhaps they have a production line and put their name on their best erhus?
Could it be that “named erhus” are popular with foreigners because if you can’t try the erhu in person, then an erhu having a name is a sort of guarantee of its quality? Would anyone like to comment? I’d really like to hear what you think.
PS hey no offence to “foreigners”, I’m a foreigner!
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Post by calden on Dec 10, 2005 18:30:46 GMT
I think you're correct. However this works against buyers as well - It's really no trouble for a maker to slap someone's name on an inferior product to make it look of higher quality.
I've been buying and playing musical isntruments for almost 40 years now and have a pretty good idea how to assess for quality without actually holding something. But with Chinese instruments it really necessitates knowing the store owner or getting a personal referral, etc., to make sure you're not getting a piece of junk. Word of mouth seem to be more important than with, say , buying a guitar from an okay shop. As with so many things it's guanxi!
Carlos
My opinion only, of course.
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Dec 11, 2005 2:29:04 GMT
I agree with Carlos, its no easy feat to select a really good instru.
I'm gonna create a thread, but here's my 2 cents worth: believe your brain more tha heart. sometimes, its a science. Nevertheless, when an instrument is new, try your best to guage. experience counts.
Look for more information in another thread.
meanwhile,
if you're in Beijing, Fang Ming Li, Lv Jian Hua are the better makers, Man Ruixing makes good Pipa. (Some of these are my snake skin customers)
In Shanghai, Get Wang Geng Xin (he is THE MAN now), or Zhang Jian Ping (senior craftsman, Dunhuang, with a HUGE supply of snake skin) or his daddy Zhang Long Xiang (same as Xu Zhen Gao in Guzheng)
In Shuzhou, get Wan Qi Xing (get from his own house, as he is reputed to "make" more than 3000 Erhu a year !!)
If you want to save money, or test your skill in selection, or want to try your luck, Look for the thread, how to select a good Erhu (price exceeding USD $800)
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Post by sanmenxia on Dec 11, 2005 17:21:07 GMT
I wouldn’t buy an erhu without actually trying it first. Yeah I know it’s a problem if you’re not in Shanghai etc! I think without trying it you can only be sure about an intrument’s technical and physical quality. Similar looking erhus can vary so much in their sound, unlike intruments like eg guitars.
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Post by carol on Dec 11, 2005 17:53:47 GMT
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Post by davidmdahl on Dec 12, 2005 3:26:55 GMT
I saw those erhus on Ebay, and have been particularly lusting for the red sandalwood. Beautiful isn't it? The skin looks good too.
The seller has listed several erhus with the same photos, so there is no guarantee that you would get the very same instrument as is in the photo. However, their feedback is good. I don't know anything about the maker. Maybe YouLanFengChune knows.
Get it and let us know how wonderful it is. <g>
Best wishes,
David
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Dec 12, 2005 6:20:36 GMT
Hi!
It looks like reasonable instrument. I have only 2 questions:
1) quality of material seems like burmese paduak, a slightly cheaper version, possibly good but not as sensitive as the andaman version
2) skin quality
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Post by peng on Dec 13, 2005 7:17:49 GMT
In Shuzhou, get Wan Qi Xing (get from his own house, as he is reputed to "make" more than 3000 Erhu a year !!) 3000 Erhu is mass produced. How can you find a good one? |
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Dec 13, 2005 10:37:02 GMT
yupz.
thats why i say get from his house. You can see many in the market, but to be absolutely sure the instrument is good, get from his house.
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Post by sanmenxia on Dec 13, 2005 16:55:31 GMT
That first one seems a bit odd, the body is 8 sided but the base is the type normally used on a 6 sided erhu. You can see from the front that it doesn't match. |
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Post by paulv on Dec 13, 2005 21:01:05 GMT
You're right -- the base DOES belong to a hexagon resonator box. That's bad workmanship for $570 USD. My teacher has several octagon erhus and the bases all fit perfectly on three that I've seen. The other erhu listed is probably a better deal. After all, pretty designs/carvings don't do anything for sound!
Regards,
Paul....
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Post by sanmenxia on Dec 13, 2005 22:30:14 GMT
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Post by davidmdahl on Dec 14, 2005 1:02:13 GMT
My first impression of the carved red sandalwood erhu was very positive, but you're right that unadorned is often more elegant. A dragon head is a bit too much for me, but the following head design does appeal to me: www.melodyofchina.com/06instruments/clouderhu.htmlIs this head unique to Wang Guo Xin? Best wishes, David |
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Dec 14, 2005 9:08:08 GMT
Hi!
Wang Guo Xin's father, Wang Rui Quan makes very very very good erhu, and i pride myself of having one.
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Post by paulv on Dec 14, 2005 13:49:34 GMT
Hi David,
I saw that same erhu at the Melody of China site a long time ago. It caught my eye also, and I've haven't seen anything similar since. I noticed in pictures of Chinese orchestras, all the erhus have the plain ends -- have you seen any exceptions to this?
Regards,
Paul....
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Post by paulv on Dec 14, 2005 14:01:57 GMT
Sanmenxia,
Looked at the two eBay erhus you posted (2nd time). If the label was readable, I could of asked my teacher to be sure, but it looks like the erhu that several of my fellow students have. If it is, the [sound] quality is average. The bows look good, but a good bow needs to be somewhat flexible.
Also, the better erhu makers try and use a python skin that has large scales and mount the skin so there's some symmetry in the pattern on the resonator box.
Regards,
Paul....
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Post by sanmenxia on Dec 14, 2005 19:07:50 GMT
Paul,
Hey thanks, I had a few lessons with an erhu player once (virtuoso standard), she had an erhu that looked exactly, but without engravings, just like the first one (sandalwood) and it sounded beautiful, yeah being a great player helps! I suppose you really can’t tell just by looking. I think the label is just a standard factory label.
Yeah I've noticed the better/top grade erhus have skins with large scales and a symmetrical pattern.
Anyway I’d just thought someone might interested, as I wouldn’t buy an erhu without trying it.
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Dec 15, 2005 2:13:35 GMT
hmmm...
large scale skins are rare nowadays. I just bought in companies name 150 skins for about $60,000 and none were the humongous skin that i usuaully dream about.
Actuallly large skin scale is usually a thing of aesthetic beauty, but thickness is the key. My own maker in Singapore (yes i have 1) tells that using digital vernier caliper, we deduce that the thickness must be about 0.4 mm to have optimal sound. Huge scale size exceeding 9 mm each will optimally have this thickness. However, the malaysian/Indonesian wild Reticulated Python, especialy female ones with 35% body fat, also have this thickness without having the humoungous scale size!!
Maybe this is a not a good good post here. Just FYI..
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Post by sanmenxia on Dec 15, 2005 7:19:55 GMT
Thanks for sharing the info! It's very interesting. I just measured mine, it's 7mm, couldn't measure the thickness :-)
As far sound is concerned, I suppose thickness must be the most important thing. I don't know anything about snake skins, but would older snakes have larger scales, therefore thicker skins? And more rare as well?
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Dec 15, 2005 7:25:15 GMT
7 mm. The thickness will usually be about 0.3 mm. Do you have a very good instrument?
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Post by paulv on Dec 15, 2005 13:31:46 GMT
Measured mine and the scales are about 8.5 mm. Obviously can't measure the thickness. My teacher always tells me that my erhu sounds good (I'm sure it has nothing to do with my playing!). The erhu was a gift from my sister-in-law (who lives in China) -- her husband had some help picking it out.
I would guess that large python's are rare due to overkilling -- or maybe the game poachers are being eaten by the big pythons!
Regards,
Paul...
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Dec 15, 2005 15:26:05 GMT
wow! thats at least a good instru. By the way, the dimension is for the length or breadth of the scale, not the hypothenus.
All the snakes in Yunnan are killed out. The indochina peninsula is facing the same problem, though its not as problematic. However, in most countries countries, pythons are protected under Appendix 2 of CITES (Trading allowed, but need to be regulated). In China its Appendix 1 of CITES (killing and tading not allowed, unless by licensed imports, which China governments take up to 1 year o permit every consignment import).
Thus, we choose to make erhu in Singapore. The huge humongous skin, is now bought up by Prada, channel, versace and LV for their products. And they have the capital of more than 10 million dollars to play around in each transaction. Erhu making requires the best skin, with no holes (class AAA and above), longer than 3 metres and thicker than 0.5 mm (scraping will make it thinner). With our limited budget, we can only buy less skin. Our chance of getting good skin is rare.
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Post by sanmenxia on Dec 15, 2005 16:00:51 GMT
I've got some pics on the "pics of your erhu" thread.
I think it's a Shanghai type erhu, although I got it in Beijing, the shop said it’s made from sandalwood (zitan). When it was new it sound a bit thin, not bright but sort of lacking in weight. I think it has improved since then. I don't really know how good or bad it is, I suppose you would need a really good player to play it to hear its full potential. It hasn't got a maker's name on it. One thing I have noticed is that when I play one open string I can see the other string vibrate a little bit, I can also feel vibration in the neck as well. I don't know if this is good or bad.
I’ve got a Beijing erhu as well, made from “lao hong mu” (old rosewood?), but the skin is not as good.
Hey paulv, got any pics of your erhu?
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Post by sanmenxia on Dec 15, 2005 16:22:52 GMT
Haha, just measured again, 7mm side to side, 8-8.5mm corner to corner!
It makes me ill just thinking that erhu makers have to compete with Prada, channel, versace and LV to get skins. I’m sure we can all agree making musical instruments is a higher and more noble use of snake skins than making luxury shoes, wallets, handbags for the rich (and wannabe rich) to use as status symbols.
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Post by Charlie Huang on Dec 15, 2005 23:14:36 GMT
Indeed. Do those rich types buy an expensive bag, use it once then chuck it in the store room? What a waste when it could be better used to create music and harmony.
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