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Post by davidmdahl on Jun 15, 2005 22:54:13 GMT
After just a few months with my wonderful new erhu I am ordering another from Cadenza, but this time it is the viola version--the zhonghu. I have long been attracted to low-pitched instruments, so this would seem to be a natural.
I am interested to hear from others who play a zhonghu. What music do you play, particularly in ensembles? Do you have any tips or words of wisdom?
Best wishes,
David Portland, Oregon
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Post by paulv on Jun 21, 2005 12:57:18 GMT
Hi David, Sorry, can't help with any good info on the zhonghu. Although I also enjoy the lower-pitched instruments, I'm considering learning the banhu in a couple of years -- like to get somewhat proficient with the erhu first.
Regards, Paul Valente
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Jun 21, 2005 18:13:23 GMT
Hi!
I don't play zhonghu, but i conduct orchestras with zhong hu in it.
The zhong hu was developed in 1940s to bring depth to the strings section in the orchestra. Originally, it was tuned to CG, one octave below gaohu.
It provides depth and body to the strings family, giving it an alto voice. In the 1960s, it was developed by mny teachers, including the late meastro Liu ming yuan into a piece The Grasslands, mimicking mongolian music and styles. The depth of the tone is simply fabulous. This piece is the staple of any Huqin performer who plays zhonghu today.
Of late, Maestro Liu Chang Fu, Professor at Central Conservatory of China, created several more pieces, like Sai Wai Qing Si, Emotions of the Borders, and many other pieces with the zhonghu, requiring versatile techniques. This has brought the zhonghu more into the level of a soloist and colourful instrument, more then just an orchestra accompaniment it formally was.
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Post by davidmdahl on Jun 21, 2005 23:32:46 GMT
Thanks for the comments, Yinhao. I am a little confused about the tuning though. I thought that the gaohu was usually tuned to G/D, so a fourth higher than the typical erhu. It makes sense that a zhonghu should be tuned to G/D an octave below the gaohu. I have read that F/C is also a reasonable choice. I didn't try tuning the zhonghu to D/A. If it works the mental gymnastics might be less when I want to play with other instruments.
My new Cadenza zhonghu arrived this morning while I was at work. I have not had much of a chance to play it, but so far I am very pleased. I really enjoy the deep rich sound. The comparison with the Mongolian morin khuur (matouqin) is justified, although the latter has a lot more volume. Of course, the morin khuur has a much larger sound box.
Best wishes,
David Dahl Portland, Oregon USA
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Post by davidmdahl on Jun 21, 2005 23:50:21 GMT
Hi David, Sorry, can't help with any good info on the zhonghu. Although I also enjoy the lower-pitched instruments, I'm considering learning the banhu in a couple of years -- like to get somewhat proficient with the erhu first. Regards, Paul Valente In my small experience with the family of two-stringers, skill on one is reasonably transferable to the others. Due to my condition, middle-age plus a raging MIAS (Musical Instrument Acquisition Syndrome), I don't let logic or practicalilty get in the way of buying another instrument. <g> I have to admit to some interest in gaohu and banhu as well. Both have a place in Vietnamese music, my special interest, and the sound is lovely. Best wishes, David Dahl Portland, Oregon USA
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Jun 22, 2005 4:08:43 GMT
I'm so sorry!
The tuning is GD. I must have been half asleep.
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Post by calden on Jul 7, 2005 5:02:34 GMT
Hey David and all:
We're hosting a student from Taiwan for a month this summer. She's studying English as a Second Language at a University here in our fair city. We made the connection with her through her father, who is the guy in Taipei who gave me my first and subsequent erhu lessons, and who gave me a high quality erhu when I was there last because he was impressed with my interest in Chinese music. So, over the last six weeks we've been arranging this home stay for her. She's here to study English and to study violin, which is her major at arts college in Taipei (Wen Hua Da Xue).
Well, she came today, and toted along with her violin an erhu case. Turned out it was ANOTHER gift for me, but not another erhu. She had brought a di yin erhu, or a BASS erhu. I pulled it out once home and started in on Er Quan Ying Yue. What a sound! This thing is tuned G-D and is very rich in tone. Apparently it's one step below the Zhong Hu. I'm so happy, happy, happy, I'm dancing around the house.
Carlos
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Post by davidmdahl on Jul 7, 2005 6:07:51 GMT
Wow, Carlos, congrats on the really big boy! I have not heard of the diyin erhu, although I have read references to the diyin gehu. I assume that yours is still erhu shaped, but just a lot bigger. What is the shape of the resonator? The one on my zhonghu is eight-sided. The Dunhuang catalog lists some big hummers that have round resonators. What are the measurements of the diyin erhu resonator?
I tune my zhonghu to G-D as well, although the sound may not be so deep as yours. I am some weeks off of playing Er Quan to say the least, but lyrical tunes do sound great.
Best wishes,
David Dahl Portland, Oregon
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Jul 7, 2005 9:10:46 GMT
Hi!
Both should be tuned to GD, and Zhonghu is deeper than Er Quan Erhu. Probably I won't advertise anymore to David, lest his wife sends me a warning mail. He bought 3 cadenza Erhus already.. (hehehehehe)
I just came back from Hangzhou, and this time, I am holding 10 Golden Sandalwood Erhu, 2 Ebony Sandalwood and 2 Er Quan Rosewood Erhu. All are the housebrands, and selected out of 150 Erhus.
I have more or less come o specific dimensions with my new group of Erhus. Increments in depths and material, and sepcifc densities. All housebrands are guranteed to succeed in playing 5 hand positions, till tyhe highest note (5 mm above the bow). Golden Sandalwood has a definite soundfield of 21 metres. Crazily, the wood itsef costs USD$40,000 per cubic metre.
Ebony sandalwood and golden sandalwood price will raise again before August. Take it from this perspective. The price of really exquisite diamonds go up admidst the sliding pricing of mere glass crystals. With regards to the price competition, we choose to raise quality, and avoid a price war.
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Post by calden on Jul 7, 2005 14:59:10 GMT
Wow, Carlos, congrats on the really big boy! I have not heard of the diyin erhu, although I have read references to the diyin gehu. I assume that yours is still erhu shaped, but just a lot bigger. What is the shape of the resonator? The one on my zhonghu is eight-sided. The Dunhuang catalog lists some big hummers that have round resonators. What are the measurements of the diyin erhu resonator? The resonator is not that much bigger, but it's oval shaped, not polyganol (polygamous?) and the neck is longer. It's not a huge thing, but it's got a really rich tone. Yinhao could probably give us more of a lesson in the difference. I actually hadn't known they existed. Yinhao, it's very thoughtful of you to consider David's marital relations while pushing erhus on him. I think, though, the next step is an electric erhu, without a resonating barrel, that would make virtually no sound except when plugged in. Wives everywhere would rejoice, I think. Only recently has my wife told me that the first six months of erhu practice were hard to listen to. I can't imagine! It all sounded good to me! Carlos
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Jul 7, 2005 16:58:53 GMT
Oval? Hmm..... You might have a Bian Tong Erhu instead (flat barrel). Most Erquan Erhus are six-sided. Perhaps Your erhu might sound better if you use a bridge cut out of pencil, and replace the cloth witha piece of soft leather. Simply break a piece of pencil 15 mm in length and use it as bridge. It would give a nasal tone, suitable for pieces like Ye Dao Feng Qing (Impressions on a Coconut Island) or Impressions of Hainan Island. It was developed byu Meastro Chen Yaoxing and Chen Jun from Beijing.
The Erquan Erhu is only one of the many huqins that existed. There is The Chang Cheng Erhu, for playing Great wall Capriccio. There is BanHu, Zhuihu, Ye Hu...as many as i can count i suppose.
There IS the electric Erhu. The problem is, it sound really horrid. Snake Skin vibes are almost the most important aspect. Fish Skin, nylon and even pig skin are all no no.
Another important aspect is the bridge. Chinese bridges, sadly are mostly made of waste material. Cadenza has now started manufacturing bridges, and are already selling them like hot cakes to muscians, in Singapore and China. The bridges are made of Canadian Rock Maple, and accoring to our dimensions. This smae material is used to make expensive bridges for european violins. The sound resulatant is soplid, rich and very clear. Looks like this is the only way we can improve chinese music!
However, please note that any order for these bridges are based on a first come first served basis, and tye waiting lists are long, and they are not cheap.
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Post by davidmdahl on Jul 7, 2005 17:09:01 GMT
So, is the diyin erhu the same as the Er Quan erhu, or is it more like the zhonghu? Hmmm.
Polygamous is probably right with regard to the erhu. Certainly music is my mistress. <g> I am very curious to know the effect on sound of the various resonator shapes. The gaohu and higher pitched two-stringers tend to use round resonators, while most larger erhus are polygonal, with either six or eight sides. Some erhus are polygonal on the skin side and round or oval on the other end. Some day we will all have to get together and compare our instruments.
An electric erhu would be a big hit around here, at least with my wife and cat. My family has not made it any secret that my practicing is not exactly pleasant to listen to. As you say, Carlos, it sounds great to my ears. <g>
Best wishes,
David
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Post by calden on Jul 7, 2005 18:57:56 GMT
So, is the diyin erhu the same as the Er Quan erhu, or is it more like the zhonghu? Hmmm. Polygamous is probably right with regard to the erhu. Certainly music is my mistress. <g> I am very curious to know the effect on sound of the various resonator shapes. The gaohu and higher pitched two-stringers tend to use round resonators, while most larger erhus are polygonal, with either six or eight sides. Some erhus are polygonal on the skin side and round or oval on the other end. Some day we will all have to get together and compare our instruments. An electric erhu would be a big hit around here, at least with my wife and cat. My family has not made it any secret that my practicing is not exactly pleasant to listen to. As you say, Carlos, it sounds great to my ears. <g> Best wishes, David Okay, that's what mine is - polygonal on the skin side and oval on the open end. The neck length is indeed longer, but the barrel is pretty much the same size. Funny, it feels bigger in my lap. Maybe we should start a spin-off support forum for spouses of erhu practicers. Carlos
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Post by davidmdahl on Jul 7, 2005 22:31:24 GMT
Okay, that's what mine is - polygonal on the skin side and oval on the open end. The neck length is indeed longer, but the barrel is pretty much the same size. Funny, it feels bigger in my lap. The zhonghu is definitely bigger as well, but funny thing is that the finger stretch does not seem much different. There is a difference response to be sure, but I am not finding it to be much of an adjustment to play. Best wishes, David
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Post by paulv on Jul 8, 2005 12:53:26 GMT
I'm a little luckier than you guys are in one respect -- my wife works until 9:30 PM, so I have at least a couple of hours to practice before she comes home. When she arrives, the first thing she says is "I'm home -- put the erhu away!"
On the other hand, my wife would never let me three erhus!!
Regards, Paul Valente
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Post by davidmdahl on Jul 8, 2005 22:50:40 GMT
It is actually a lot worse than three erhus. I have one erhu, a zhonghu, three Vietnamese nhi (very similar to Chinese two-string fiddles), moon lute (dan nguyet), a bunch of monochords (dan bau), and more flutes and whistles that I can remember. I rationalize it all by pointing out that collecting musical instruments is cheaper than collecting cars or women. It helps that I try to make sure that my wife gets things on her wish list. <g>
Best wishes,
David
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Post by twilight on Jul 11, 2005 5:37:18 GMT
:-) congrats david on another instrument. How is your erhu practice coming along?
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Post by davidmdahl on Jul 11, 2005 6:42:55 GMT
:-) congrats david on another instrument. How is your erhu practice coming along? Thanks, Twilight. I am having a lot of fun with the erhu and zhonghu. Hopefully someday my family will be able to say the same. <g> I am having trouble keeping a good balance of practicing on both erhu and dan bau. I need to work particularly hard on dan bau to prepare for a possible performance in August, and I have some new tunes to memorize. It is fun to have two instruments to practice that are very different from each other, but it is a challenge when both require relatively intense work. Best wishes, David
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Post by paulv on Jul 11, 2005 12:35:40 GMT
Hi David, Good luck in trying to get in all your practicing for all your various instruments!!
I have enough to do with just practicing my erhu. I think I've just graduated from being an erhu infant to an erhu toddler -- no more erhu diapers!!!!
Regards, Paul Valente
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Post by davidmdahl on Jul 11, 2005 17:20:59 GMT
Thanks, Paul. It does take a while to sound good on a bowed instrument. What has surprised me is how fun it was to play even from the very beginning. It seems those moments of good sound help us to forget the caterwauling, even though the reverse effect seems to be the case for the unfortunates forced to listen. I would have taken up the fiddle a long time ago if I had known how much fun it is.
Best wishes,
David
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Post by paulv on Jul 12, 2005 12:36:36 GMT
David, I totally agree with you.
Regards, Paul
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Post by sanmenxia on Nov 25, 2005 15:08:16 GMT
There's another piece for solo zhonghu called "mu min gui lai le" (shepherds have returned) by Liu Mingyuan. It's a bit similar in style to "On Grasslands", but shorter and more upbeat in mood. It’s one of my favourite pieces of Chinese music.
I’ve got quite few erhu/huqin notation books but I never seen any notation for "On Grasslands", has anyone got a copy they could share?
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Post by calden on Nov 25, 2005 17:22:33 GMT
There's another piece for solo zhonghu called "mu min gui lai le" (shepherds have returned) by Liu Mingyuan. It's a bit similar in style to "On Grasslands", but shorter and more upbeat in mood. It’s one of my favourite pieces of Chinese music. I’ve got quite few erhu/huqin notation books but I never seen any notation for "On Grasslands", has anyone got a copy they could share? Sanmenxia: I've got notation for a piece called "Cao yuan xin minmu", that's a duet of an erhu and yangqin. Is that the same piece you're talking about? It's got "grassland" and "shepherd" in the title but I know that there are probably a lot of tunes concerning mumin and caoyuan. Carlos
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Post by sanmenxia on Nov 25, 2005 21:16:26 GMT
Hi Carlos, Sorry I should have been clear, the piece I mean is for zhonghu called "cao yuan shang" by Liu Mingyuan. You're right, there are many pieces with similar titles, or even different pieces with the same title, it can get a bit confusing!
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Post by maaltan on Jan 12, 2006 22:14:23 GMT
on the subject of neighbors with pitch forks... i assume it would be resonably easy to mute the erhu down for the beginner so they could practice without suffering the wrath of people. You would have to disable the resonator somehow. Maybe an extra bit of sponge/cloth over the bridge maybe. If the back part was open enough stuff some cloth inside it.
Again, I know hardly anything other than harmonic theory etc. (from a scientific point a view not musical) Would this affect the tone of the instrument to the point where you would develop bad habits playing it like that?
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