learning the erhu / lot of beginners questions

[Silver]

with my erhu there is a video delivered which shows how to use the erhu. it's spoken in chinese with english subtitles but the person does no show exactly you hold the erhu on the left hand side and how you tip the strings! how do you glide with your left hand quickly without loosing the erhu? it's sooo difficult!
do i really need fingernails to play the erhu? the problem is i'm eating fingernails for my hole life
do you have colored photos showing exactly how to hold and play the erhu for beginners?
and my last question: how do you now the note you have to tip? i'm playing guitar and there are "barrets" you can orientate, but the erhu has nothing. is there a little trick for beginners? for ex. with marks somewhere?

do i have to release the strings when i want to leave playing the erhu or can i let them be adjusted? does it take damage to the snakeskin when the bridge is under pressure all the time?

[Charlie Huang]

I don't play erhu, so I might be wrong, but I did saw it being played a few months ago.

I think, you grip the shaft of the erhu in the space between the thumb and index finger, where they join. Therefore, whenever you draw or push the bow, the erhu doesn't fly off your hand (that is assuming you were supporting the shaft with your thumb only, before...).
I don't think you need to have fingernails to play the erhu, in fact, I think it can be a hinderance. As far as I know, fingernails are for plucking. When I play guqin, I keep the right hand nails long, but I cut my left hand nails, since they can 'get in the way'.
Dunno what tipping the strings is, or are you on about note postion? If that is, then I think you can get diagrams (in various books) showing you the relative note positions on the strings, but other than that, you have to 'feel' for the right notes.

As for slackening the strings after play or not, I'm don't know since I don't know the anatomy of the erhu, but it might be the case, coz snakeskin is a fragile thing.

[calden]

Silver:

You need an instructor to show you these things. It's so much easier to let you see what's happening than trying to put it in words. But I'll try.

The erhu neck should rest loosely in the space between your thumb and where it joins your hand. It is NOT like holding a violin which needs a space under the neck where the thumb and hand meet - the erhu neck goes right back to that area.

The left hand position should be just as if your arm and hand are down at your side, relaxed, and you raise your hand up to your chin level, as though you are talking on the phone. Keep your hand in that open, relaxed position, and place the erhu neck in that thumb-hand spot. You should find that your relaxed fingers sit right on top of the strings, in approximately the correct noting positions, all still relaxed. There is no odd twisting or turning to get the right position as with first learning violin.

In the correct position, the first joint section of your index finger (the section going from your hand to the middle of your finger) should be pretty level and horizontal. This ought to be also level with- right beside -the string winding (nut) that holds the strings to the neck. Additionally, this part of the finger, the first joint, ought to be right up against the strings and nut, actually lightly touching them.

When your relaxed hand position is in the right place, your ring finger ought to very naturally fall where the fifth fret position would be (the "fa" or fourth tone of a major scale). The string nut is adjustable up and down so as to allow for this scale length to be made for any one player's arm and finger size.

You do not want fingernails. Nails will hinder you. They should be as short as a guitar player's left hand nails. If your hand is in the right position as described above, your middle and/or ring finger will come down pretty much straight down to the string at a good 90 degree angle, meaning that the fingertip should touch the string, not the pad of the fingertip. Nails need to be short for this. (However, your little finger will not come down straight because of your hand position - it sort of snakes out to hit the string at an angle.)

You need enough finger pressure to stop the string cleanly, about the same pressure as turning on a computer. The right amount of pressure will push the string down (towards the neck) just a little bit, maybe a couple of millimeters.

There are no markers to indicate where the right note is, but students can put little pieces of tape or stickers on the neck, under the strings (make sure these can come off the instrument cleany) to indicate where the note positions are. My first teacher put a small dot of white-out correction fluid at the location where the fifth, seventh, and twelfth frets would be on a fretted stringed instrument.

As far as holding the instrument still while sliding, it should be really firmly seated on your leg right up against your body. You might want to to put a small piece of leather under it to help hold it still. It takes practice, too, to learn to hold the erhu loosely but firmly enough.

The right hand bowing is a whole other can of descriptive worms. It involves both large and subtle changes in arm, wrist, and, and finger movements that are hard to describe even when showing you how to do them. The bowing technique can greatly affect the stability of the instrument in your lap.

Good luck, and try and find a teacher. Even if you have to make a trip of it to another city for a lesson or two, it will help you immensely. Playiing this instrument feels very natural but it took some deprogramming from playing other stringed instruments for me to achieve this.
Carlos

[Charlie Huang]

Well, I was more or less spot on in my advice (though a bit vague but more or less spot on)! ;D

[calden]

Oh, I forgot: It's standard procedure to put a small dowel stick between the strings and the head when you're not playiing to relieve the pressure of the bridge on the head. A short pencil slid under the strings from the top of the head usuallly works fine to lift the strings up a bit. You want the pencil to be long enough to span across the whole head, so the ends of the pencil are resting on the wooden edge of the barrel (body.)

Carlos

[Silver]

hey carlos and CC charlie

thanks very much for there valuable tipps. i have to take a look if someone in zurich/switzerland gives lessons for the erhu, but i don't think so....

about that pencil pushing the strings to save the bridge: does this thing exist officially or do i have to build i by myself? that seems ot be a very cool idea!

[calden]

Silver:

I put together a quick web page with some pics of the things I was talking about.

Please note that I've been playing only three years, and I'm not a formally trained erhu instructor. I've had several lessons with some master teachers, though - five with Warren Chang in Seattle, six with Li Xi Qi in Taipei, one with a master erhu student in Taipei, and one with a master player who was visiting my city.

At my last lesson with Warren in Seattle, he said that I had all the mechanics correct. I feel somewhat able to demonstrate the basics.

Here it is:

www.eaglelake1.org/erhu.html

Let me know if it's helpful.
Carlos

[davidmdahl]

I just bought a pair of Vietnamese versions of the erhu and what I guess would be the gaohu, and could use some instructional material. I found an excellent intro on the web at www.jiebingchen.com/erhu/video.shtml

The other resource in English is a VCD by George Gao. Is this worth getting? I plan on getting a few lessons eventually, but something to get me started would be fun.

Thanks.

Best wishes,

David

[YouLanFengChune]

No!!

Cadenza sells them in Singapore for less than $30 a set excluding shipping.

Often the exam repertoire books cost only $10 USD.

[YouLanFengChune]

But I mean the Erhu and Gaohu.
I am suggesting the Shanghai Version by Dean of Traditional music Wang YongDe.

It really should be betta. The language may be Chinese, but you can soimply get a Chinese friend to help you, or mimic its movements. Its good!

I never had an erhu teacher, but can pull off a tune due to it!. Worth a try!

[davidmdahl]

Hello Yinhao,

Please describe the Wang YongDe materials. How many VCDs? Does sheet music or other written material go with the video? My primary goal is for course materials that will help me learn good basic techniques. At the moment, I really don't need tunes, although appropriate exercises would be helpful.

Best wishes,

David

[calden]

The other resource in English is a VCD by George Gao. Is this worth getting? I plan on getting a few lessons eventually, but something to get me started would be fun.
Thanks.
Best wishes,
David

David:

I bought the George Gao VCD last year. I watched it for a few minutes and realized it was too elementary for me - very basic. However, it seemed pretty good. I'll scan more of it this holiday weekend. (Giving thanks for Chinese music! I brought a Chinese student and her family to my friend's house for a BIG traditional Thanksgiving dinner last night - and toted along the erhu as well. Gave them all a taste of Nan Ni Wan, White Hair Girl, etc. )

I'll be able to give a better review in a few days.

Carlos

[YouLanFengChune]

Hmm....

I think i really should reccomend the ShangHai VCD.

Its the guidlines and techniques required for Shaihai Conservatory Amatuer Internatil Examins Grade 1 to 10.
Upon passing of Grade 10 with Merit, you will get a chance to contend for a place in teh Conservatorium as an Undergrad.

The VCD is by the Dean of Shanghai Conservatorium, Wang YongDe.

Cadenza carries it for sale, but not online.

Interested?

[Charlie Huang]

davidmdahl said:

I just bought a pair of Vietnamese versions of the erhu and what I guess would be the gaohu, and could use some instructional material. I found an excellent intro on the web at www.jiebingchen.com/erhu/video.shtml

Wow, I learnt a lot from that (and I don't even have an erhu)! ;D

[davidmdahl]

I could use some suggestions for cleaning rosin from erhu strings and resonator box. Also, how could I adjust the "oianjin"? I find that it does not seem quite tight enough. The sound quality of the upper string is much better when I play a non-open string note.

Thanks.

Best wishes,

David Dahl
Portland, Oregon

[YouLanFengChune]

Cleaning from strings, use an alcohol swab. Cleaning from resonator box, use olive oil on soft cloth, or a wood wash for furniture (Pledge is good). Becareful if your resonator box is painted. Alcohol may slightly discolour it.

And Qianjin, hmm, its hard to demonstrate to you like that. You should learn how to tie it without knots and both ends tucked under.

Normally, I change my qian jin quite often. The width of the qianjin, by chinese standards should be as wide as your thumb, unless its really small. Height of Qianjin should be from your elbow to the lowest joint of your little finger(the one where your finger connects to your hand)

[YouLanFengChune]

Re-adjust Qianjin, re adjust the bridge.

Hmm...

[erhuerhu]

hi i m new here. I have studied the erhu 4 a long time already. By the way YouLanFengChune, I saw the Cadenza website. i noe u r a little releated to the website. I see that hangzhou erhu is sold there. Actually good erhu cums from beijing, suzhou n shanghai. i cant say that hangzhou's erhu is no good. But hangzhou cant produce the best erhu. Maybe u can get the webmaster to sell more erhu from beijing, suzhou n shanghai.(no offence 4 this msg. I stayed in shanghai for 3 yrs so i m familier wif the production of erhu)

[YouLanFengChune]

Hello!

Good erhu? What denotes a good erhu?

1) Volume and Dynamics
2) cleanliness of tone
3) ability of instrument to play up to 5 hand positions (the highest note is where your little finger is 2mm away from the bow hair)
4) Sound field tolarance. The volume of the highest note should sound clean and bright 1 metres away as well as 50 metres away.
5) Durability of instrument due to materials. Look at grains. Should seldom have whorls. Instead, all wood grains should face 1 direction.
6) Skin pattern and tautness. Look at Cadenza's pictures, those are examples of god instruments.
7) Usability. Sandalwood, redwood a,d all t5he rest. Different Classes for all. There are 12 classes of the famed Sandalwood, and most people sell...well firewod Sandalwood.

Now, lets talk about Places. Shuzhou, famed makers Zhou Li, Li Jun but declineing quality.

Beijing, Hu Han Rou (my buddy). His instruments are well constructed, but due to climate, its not suitable for playing in Countries like Southeat Asia, or even Southern China.
Shanghai? Well Except Wang Gen Xing (whose instruments are PRADA and CHANEL GRade), most are really good. Problem is, he is very old, and being very insistent on himself making EVERY instrument bearing his name. His waiting list last for 2 years. However, it is only rare, but not expensive. Cadenza has his exclusive contacts, and we have 4 erhus on the waiting list. The next one will arrive Christmas NEXT YEAR!
Wan Qi Xing, well, they mass produced a lot, and Cadenza has exclusive Contacts to him personally. As there are too many fake Wan Qi Xings there, we do not actually recommend it.

David highleighted to me that these makers are not well known in many places. Sadly, these makers are the REAL master makers. They have credits to their line, and are willing to swear by their own instrumentsts.
Personal; Aquaintence is very very important when u buy instruments nowadays.

MAN RUIXIN? He makes more pipa than Erhu, and they cost a bomb, minus the quality!

As for Hang Zhou, The maker is from Shuzhou, except that the best materials are consolidated along with the bambo we exclusively asked for, and hence, he made themin Hangzhou. Plus, The weather is suitable for USA, Europe and Singapore.

A point to note, with the world moving today, Geographical Locations dun matter anymore. Ng Teck Seng is in Singapore and 50% of his instruments sell back to China. He is our Exclusive maker.

[YouLanFengChune]

Guys!

Maestro maker Wang Geng Xin will be hand making Limited Edition Erhus (10 per year) of extreme quality Sandalwoods, endorsed by Min Hui Fen. Its costs $3000 each. You will receive your exclusive Erhu 5 years from now.

Thats really extreme erhu, but i wouldn't think about buying them at all. It costs too much, although Old Man Wang (aged 72 ) still insists on hand making and hand picking his own erhu. Quality is so high that his instruments are sold OUT in Singapore, Shanghai and Beijing. Taiwan has a few remaining stocks, and waiting lists are very long.

However, I think there is a possibility of getting the Unedorsed Versions. I wish to acquire 2, one redwood one ( about $600), and 1 sandalwood one ($1000) for personal use.

It is very expensive, but mys guess is its value will only go UP and not down with age. I still see professors from shanghai using 30-yr old Wang geng Xings, and they still sound wonderful.

If you're interested in owning a Wang geng Xin, please notify me and I hope we can secure better prices. I am rather insistent on buying for myself as Wang Geng Xin IS the Ultimate Erhu. I would have to wait for my erhu, really....

[spansar]

regarding the pencil-under-the-strings technique, i wonder if that is a healthier method of easing tension than slackening the strings with the pegs, or if there's no difference?

[paulv]

regarding the pencil-under-the-strings technique, i wonder if that is a healthier method of easing tension than slackening the strings with the pegs, or if there's no difference?

I tend not to turn the tuning pegs but use fine tuners. It seems to me that constantly turning the tuning pegs would create a lot of "wear & tear" on the pegs and the holes. The fine tuners do beat up the strings, but who cares -- the strings are cheap enough to replace.

Regards,
paul...