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Post by davidmdahl on Apr 21, 2005 16:15:08 GMT
Invoking the precedence of some "tradition" or imagined cultural or historical preference for one kind of notation over the other is simply argumentive. Well, I don't agree but will not beat a dead horse. Maybe I look for reasons to learn and use the traditional notation since I enjoy it. It's a pragmatic approach since so much more music is available. Best wishes, David
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Post by davidmdahl on Apr 21, 2005 21:07:06 GMT
One thing I did when I first started playing was to make a large fingering chart and have it next to the score I was practicing <snip> Regards, Paul ("Old Mangy Dog Incapable of New Tricks") Valente So far I don't need a fingering chart, but am only playing first position G tunes. Is the chart particularly useful for more ambitious tunes that use the second position? Thanks. Best wishes, David ("Bull-headed do-it-my-own-way") Dahl
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Post by paulv on Apr 22, 2005 12:42:56 GMT
Hi David, I doubt that you'll stay with only playing tunes in D & G in the first position. What's important is that for other keys and higher positions, the index & little fingers tend to be used to sound more than one note. For example, in F, the index finger is used for both F (1) and E (7 with dot under), 6 (with dot under) is the open, inside string (D). There are numerous examples of the little finger do things like that.Of course, there are tunes in which the fingering varies from the default charts to accomplish a certain flow.
By the way, on adjusting the qianjin (I think that's how it's called), I first used the traditional setup (elbow on resonator box, adjust qianjin to first joint of little finger) to get the general area, then I bent my index finger around to obtain the most comfortable position for E in the key of D, and adjusted the qianjin accordingly.
Let me know if you don't have any good fingering charts. My wife picked me up a self-study book written by some erhu master teaching at Shanghai Conservatory -- he put in some good charts -- two keys per 8.5 x 11 page. I can scan them in and email them to you.
Regards
Paul Valente
PS: How's your cat doing with the erhu music? maybe you should learn that "Meow Mix " TV commercial jingle!!! I have a dog & cat and the only thing that they despise is when the food bowls are empty!
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Post by davidmdahl on Apr 24, 2005 2:50:05 GMT
I doubt that you'll stay with only playing tunes in D & G in the first position. What's important is that for other keys and higher positions, the index & little fingers tend to be used to sound more than one note. Yes, I have noticed that. I started playing tunes that include the second position few weeks ago, and then for the past week have been playing G tunes and exercises in first position. I have not played much of anything in second position in G other than the scale. I can already see that G is a very useful key on erhu. By the way, on adjusting the qianjin (I think that's how it's called), I first used the traditional setup (elbow on resonator box, adjust qianjin to first joint of little finger) to get the general area, <snip> I also find it a bit strange that the qianjin is traditionally set this way. It seems more reasonable that finger length should be a more important ingredient than the length of the forearm. My fingers are on the short side, so I moved the qianjin down a bit to make the stretches less intense. Let me know if you don't have any good fingering charts. My wife picked me up a self-study book written by some erhu master teaching at Shanghai Conservatory -- he put in some good charts -- two keys per 8.5 x 11 page. I can scan them in and email them to you. That would be great! Thank you. PS: How's your cat doing with the erhu music? maybe you should learn that "Meow Mix " TV commercial jingle!!! I have a dog & cat and the only thing that they despise is when the food bowls are empty! My cat objects to any activity that does not involve attending to her desires. What drives me nuts is that the tea kettle can be screaming at full tilt, and the cat pays little attention. Just one scrape of the bow on my erhu or nhi has her howling or running out the door. <g> Best wishes, David
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Post by paulv on Apr 25, 2005 13:29:39 GMT
Hi David,
Be careful that you dont move the qianjin down too much as this will cause the notes in the third position to get so close that you'll have trouble trying and play notes that are either a full step or half step apart with adjacent fingers.
Give me a couple of days and I'll have those charts to you. They're pretty good quality, but I noticed that some of the note markers are off in alignment between the two string indications.
Your cat story is interesting. I had two dogs (hounds) at one time who would howl when the fire truck went by with the siren going. It was strange that at a certain point after the truck passed the house, they would chime in and howl in unison with the truck.
Regards,
Paul Valente
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Post by davidmdahl on Apr 26, 2005 5:23:36 GMT
Good point about the qianjin, Paul. I will ask my teacher to check the position at my next lesson. I would hate to get used to the finger distances if I will need to change back later anyway.
What a hoot about your hounds! When I was taking flute lessons in the mid-90's, my teacher's dog would sit at my feet and sing along if I was playing with particularly good focused tone. It unnerved me, but my teacher thought it was a good sign. <g>
Best wishes,
David
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Post by paulv on Apr 26, 2005 12:23:49 GMT
Hi David, Good idea to check with your teacher -- I know when I first moved my qianjin, and then had to move it again, it really caused a lot of confusion. By the way, depending how your qianjin is tied, moving it alot may cause it to loosen.
Another story about animals and sounds -- those two hounds I had also would start howl when I played this one album (yes, albums, those flat vinyl things) -- it happen to be a Buddy Rich album that was a high tech (at that time) Direct to Disk recording. They wouldn't howl at anything else in my jazz collection!
Regards,
Paul Valente
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Post by davidmdahl on Apr 29, 2005 20:31:36 GMT
One fellow I found does not make an erhu sound like a groaning iron saw. Mr. Wang Guowei is featured in a streamed video of a passionate solo performance of the wonderful tune "The Moon Reflected in the Erquan Pool", composed I think by Ah Bing. Wow, this performance knocks me out. www.musicfromchina.org/meetMusicians/WangGuowei.htmOn the main page, there is another streamed video with Wang Gauowei playing gaohu in an ensemble performing "Birds in the Forest". www.musicfromchina.orgIn the "Sample Our Music" section, there is an ensemble performance of "Wedding Processional". These are all terrific performances of my favorite styles of Chinese music. I highly recommend them to you. Best wishes, David
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Apr 29, 2005 23:18:13 GMT
I love Erquan!
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Post by James on May 2, 2005 7:15:56 GMT
can someone tell mi who is zhang yu ming?? i wanna noe a little intro about him....
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Post by YouLanFengChune on May 2, 2005 11:29:24 GMT
Hi!
I know him rather well!
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Post by James on May 3, 2005 10:10:03 GMT
oh sorry. my msn msg spoil. dunno why?? Who is Zhang Yu Ming anyway???
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Post by paulv on May 3, 2005 13:43:27 GMT
Hi David, Listened to Wang Guowei -- thanks for the tip. His music is beautiful. A Bing's "Erquan" song is too advanced for me right now to play -- maybe a couple more [decades] years. My teacher has given me a few Liu Tian Hua songs to learn though. There's a web site of an erhu factory in southern China (but forgot their name) which has Erquan as a background song when you first go onto their site.
I really like the 3 Gate Gorge Capriccio -- it is so pretty to listen to -- this is another piece that I can't even think about playing!! By the way, this song is on that CD I recommended to you -- the one that has 10 Chinese classics for erhu.
Like yourself, I also enjoy the nice flowing, lyrical types of traditional tunes and hope to learn as many as I can.
Regards,
Paul Valente
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Post by twilight on May 5, 2005 3:35:31 GMT
One fellow I found does not make an erhu sound like a groaning iron saw. Mr. Wang Guowei is featured in a streamed video of a passionate solo performance of the wonderful tune "The Moon Reflected in the Erquan Pool", composed I think by Ah Bing. Wow, this performance knocks me out. www.musicfromchina.org/meetMusicians/WangGuowei.htmOn the main page, there is another streamed video with Wang Gauowei playing gaohu in an ensemble performing "Birds in the Forest". www.musicfromchina.orgIn the "Sample Our Music" section, there is an ensemble performance of "Wedding Processional". These are all terrific performances of my favorite styles of Chinese music. I highly recommend them to you. Best wishes, David That solo by Mr. Wang Guowei is simply beautifullllllll. when you can play like that, we wanna hear a clip from you too David. ;D
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Post by paulv on May 5, 2005 16:36:25 GMT
I don't know how David is progressing, but for me to play like that..... well MP3's will have evolved to MP3000's, and I'll be standing upright playing the erhu!!
last summer my wife & I had a party and I invited my erhu teacher. He played Horse Racing (Sai Ma) for the crowd after I played a "crippled" version of Happiness (Xi Yang Yang). A friend jokingly asked why I didn't sound like my teacher. I replied that my techer has been playing for 40 years and I would have another party in 2044 and play Horse Racing for everyone!!!!!
Regards, Paul Valente
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Post by YouLanFengChune on May 6, 2005 0:55:50 GMT
Hi Paul,
I have faith that in 4 years time, you'll sound reasonably good. I have seen 12 year olds playing San Men Xia (3 Gate Gorge Capriccio ) with abosolute ease. and they learnt in my studio for only 5 years.
The basics need to be mastered and things will really get very very easy.
The important thing now is that everyone believe firmly in themselves and train right from the basics, and gun for as high as possible. You're in good time. sai Ma is graded 4 on the exams scale,for amateurs conducted by shanghai Conservatory, San Men Xia is 8, i guess, so 4 more years, yeah!!
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Post by davidmdahl on May 6, 2005 7:05:35 GMT
LOL! I hope no one is holding their breath waiting for me to play Erquan like Wang Guowei. What a musician!
My lessons are going great and I am making excellent progress. My teacher wants me to play at the Portland Chinese Classical Garden in June, so we will see. I would like to have at least the beginnings of vibrato before I go public. I am starting to feel reasonably comfortable in second position, and have been scratching at a few notes in third position.
I don't know when I will attempt Erquan, but I intend to when the time is right. My experience with other instruments shows me that I can play difficult music when I love it and don't think of it as being too hard. As for "Horse Racing", I may get around to it sooner or later, but I prefer expressive lyrical music in the Erquan style. One thing I love about the erhu is that even relatively simple music can sound great when played musically. I really prefer expression to pyrotechniques.
My teacher this evening mentioned that Erquan is often performed with special strings and is tuned low. This may partly explain the gorgeous sound of the lower notes in the Wang Guowei performance. Wow.
Best wishes,
David
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Post by paulv on May 6, 2005 12:45:32 GMT
Hi Yinhao, Thanks for the kind words. My teacher has told me the same, so I'm patiently waiting for this to happen! I only wish that I had more time to practice -- a couple of hours each night and 3-4 hrs on the weekend is all I can do (these are the times my wife is working). Right now, I'm almost at the 1.5 years mark playing learning erhu. At the 4 year mark, I hope to branch off into learing to play the banhu.
Hi David, Glad to hear the great news from you! I think you'll have a great time playing that concert in June. I share your music choices -- Horse Racing is nice, but songs like Erquan are my favorites. We should start sharing mp3's of our music -- I sometimes record some of my songs to critique them.
Regards,
Paul Valente
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Post by YouLanFengChune on May 6, 2005 16:42:08 GMT
Erquan requires the Erquan Erhu, which needs to be specially ordered from most places, and Dunhuang even has Erquan Strings for use with Erquan (no joke)
Erquan has been compared to beethoven's symphonies, not a note redundant, not a beat interchangeable. 5 repertitions, 5 different styles.
I performed Erquan as an accompanist quite a few times, once with Min Huifen, a legendary maestro senior who first played Chang Cheng Sui Xiang (Great Wall Capricios). Most players are still in awe of her despite her technical difficulties, (she battling cancer, and she is nearly 60). Please ask your teachers about her.
Remember, The Blind Ah Bing being a beggar, and a vagabond, his inner frustrations compsed Erquan , in the toughest of times.
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Post by paulv on May 6, 2005 17:51:18 GMT
This is interesting -- I never knew that there was a special erhu for that song. What are the differences between an Erquan erhu and a regular one? I know that Liu Tian Hua did a lot to promote the erhu as a solo instrument.
I know the story of Ah Bing and how the Communist Party looked down at people like him during those times.
But Ah Bing was an interesting person, and therefore, produced interesting music. I'm a mediocre person, and cannot create music that is very interesting -- that's why I left my formal music training 30 years ago. I finished 3 yrs of a 4 yr program and decided that music would not be a good career path for me.
Regards,
Paul Valente
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Post by davidmdahl on May 6, 2005 20:07:35 GMT
But Ah Bing was an interesting person, and therefore, produced interesting music. I'm a mediocre person, and cannot create music that is very interesting -- that's why I left my formal music training 30 years ago. I finished 3 yrs of a 4 yr program and decided that music would not be a good career path for me. Anyone who plays erhu is an interesting person! When we compare ourselves with famous people who have accomplished a lot, it is easy to feel mediocre. This ignores the fact that a lot of who we are and what we do is not easy to evaluate. If we spend a lot of time with our children and not on practicing, then who knows what that will lead to? I also made the choice 25 years ago not to pursue a music degree, and it was the best decision I could have made. On some things like classical flute and piano I am nothing special, but can make good music. With traditional music however I have found my calling, and can really enjoy myself and share it effectively with others. Finding that calling is key to getting past the point of treating a musical instrument as a mechanical device for making sound, and actually making expressive music. On erhu I sometimes manage to make some beautiful sounds that are in-tune. Maybe beautiful is a relative term. <g> My cat still highly objects and my wife does not stay in the room any longer than she has to. I think that anyone who struggles with music is way beyond mediocre. Even without great technical mastery it is possible to make music that touches people. Best wishes, David Dahl
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Post by YouLanFengChune on May 6, 2005 23:09:00 GMT
well, i made the choice that i want to persue a music degree in Chinese Music, to the objection of my entire family. In fact, I've already been accepted.
Now what i need is the money to go, sadly. My students are very supportive, and so are my teachers, who have been showing me the way. I hope I won't have to give this up for non-artistic reasons.
Liu Tien Hua made the erhu a solo instrument from an accompanying instrument for operas. Original Erhus were circular, and making it 6 sided will even off a lot of the unwanted overtones.
The Erhu is still undergoing evolution. It has to evolve for the Chinese Orchestra to be more scientific. Currently, we're working on Chinese Orchestra forms, and its desire to be symphonised WITHOUT losing our chinese characteristic cannot be stopped.
David has a prototype from cadenza, which we determined was a great solo and ensemble instrument, but stil needs to be louder and brighhter for use in Chinese Orchestra (or Chinese Philharmonic Orchestra). He liked it better that way. Tune your strings to C, G and you can play Erquan already! Ebony sandalwood Erquan Erhu sells for 1000$ in Taiwan!
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Post by paulv on May 9, 2005 13:40:41 GMT
All, I see that my post generated a lot of good commentary, and I enjoyed reading them -- great stuff!!!
Regards
Paul Valente
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Jun 4, 2005 12:31:37 GMT
I have come back. Good news and bad.
Dunhuang is opening up its 5th scientific labs for musical instruments. Soon, in the seeable future, instruments will be serialised. In fact, they will be from end this year. They will come with International warranty.
They will also be scientific, taking out imperfections, as far as possible, without losing our characteristic. dizis will be specially treated to reduce pitch changing, the silicon oxide content of pauluwania will be controlled and they will be as perfect as is possible.
Bad news:
Chinese reminbi + CITES Control over skin, ivory and protected woods means prices will be going up and up and up very very very soon.
I'm trying my best to stay the prices by cutting down costs of transport. believe me. I lugged 75 Erhus home on my return trip. My partner lugged guzhengs and pipa. We're virtually trying to control the prices for as long as possible.
Sandalwoods are virtually extinct for cutting. I obtained license for only 3 log of golden sandalwood per year. 1 tree for ebony sandalwood, and <please dun laugh> ancient tables, chairs and beams for aged redwood.
I hope this is enough. Making and providing musical instruments is serious business. I have yet to have any dissapointed customers yet, and i'm sure this will continue.
Please feedback and comments!
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