Weird notes on the D string

[jodariel]

Hey guys,

So I've had my erhu for about 2 weeks now, and I've just about figured out how to produce a clean and consistent sound. The open strings sound good, and so is pretty much anything I try on the A string. Surprisingly, I've had no issues with higher notes on the D string, but there's something odd about the lower notes, especially E, F#, and G. When I try to bow them, the notes often "crack", like a voice crack, and they come out one octave higher than they should be. For example, I'll be trying to play an E4, but halfway through my bow stroke, the note cracks and becomes an E5. I notice a similar effect on other notes if I bow them too fast, or with not enough pressure, but these lower notes on the D string seem to be much more sensitive to error.

For awhile, I thought it was my bowing technique, and at some point, even wondered whether or not my instrument was properly set up. But after a lot of experimenting and fiddling around, I found something interesting. It seems that when I press the string with my thumb, the low notes come out just fine. If I try the same thing with the fingers I'm supposed to use (index, middle, etc.), the notes crack again. That being said, I don't think the issue is about bowing or instrument setup anymore. The erhu is clearly capable of playing these notes, but I must be doing something wrong with my left hand. Anyone out here have any ideas?

If necessary, I can post pics of my fingers on the strings, or anything you need to see about the way my erhu is put together. Damper, bridge, qianjin, etc.

Thanks.

[davidmdahl]

Welcome to the forum, Jodariel. I suspect that the cause of your problem is either a qianjin that is too wide, the strings are looping off the pegs too far from the ends, or both. The normal spacing for the qianjin is about the width of a thumb, and the strings should loop off the pegs as close as possible to the end. It may be that the qianjin needs to be retied. There are good videos on Youtube on tying a qianjin. If nothing else, a video will show you what a qianjin is supposed to look like.

Another possibility is that the bridge is too tall, or just not right for your erhu. You might try a few other bridges to see if there is a difference in the problem. You might even turn around the existing bridge. Often times there is a thick groove on one side for the D string and a thin groove on the other for the A string. You may have the bridge turned around from optimal. If the bridge is too tall, you could sand a little wood off the bottom. Do only a little bit at a time, and you might not want to do it on your only bridge.

Finally, you may experiment with the position and thickness of the pad. If you have a foam pad, you might try a dense felt. Higher quality erhus tend to come with felt pads instead of foam. The foam pads can deteriorate with age and not put enough pressure where it counts.

If these tips don't help, then photos may be useful.

Best wishes,

David

[jodariel]

My erhu is from Eason Music, so it's supposedly been tested by a couple of experts before it was shipped to me. I'm using the bridge and felt damper that was attached to it from the get-go, though it did come with spares that I could switch out with. Based on your descriptions, though, I may have an idea of what I could do to "fix" my D string. I'll post some images of everything else you mentioned, shortly.

[davidmdahl]

I suggest contacting Eason Music about your erhu questions. They are good about post-sale support. Sung Wah, the proprietor, knows the erhu well and should have some good suggestions.

Best wishes,

David

[jodariel]

Alright, that sounds like a good plan. Just a quick question beforehand though, about the hunch I had earlier. Something tells me that the string isn't looped close enough to the tip of the peg.



In particular, I think it might have something to do with the way it's coiled towards the back of the peg.




Should I make any changes to this?

[davidmdahl]

Well, if it were my erhu, I would make the strings loop off closer to the ends of the pegs. However, it is easy to make a mess of it. If you loosen a peg and the string coils come off of the peg, it is tricky to get the string wrapped around the peg again without kinking it. If you do move the loop-off, make sure to keep the tension on the string with your other hand as you turn the peg. You only need to loosen a little bit of string before tightening again while wrapping the string near the peg end. If you let the string go slack, the coil may come off the peg or the string may slip off the bottom of the erhu, so make sure to keep the tension on the string. It may be worth getting someone to help you, by holding the erhu or the string.

How does the qianjin look? You might check that before messing with the pegs.

Best wishes,

David

[jodariel]

Happens that I've already made the appropriate changes to my strings and pegs, though it didn't solve the issue. Here's the qianjin next to my thumb for comparison.




And here's how high it is on the neck.

[paulv]

There's a way to determine how high/low the qianjin should be using your forearm, but since I forgot it, you can try (I used to always measure this way) to tune the erhu, then "naturally where your finger goes" put your first finger (index) on the string's first position and see if you get the proper notes (E & B from open D & A) - if not, adjust the qianjin accordingly.

Regards,

paul...

[dawei]

Jan 30, 2018 12:27:54 GMT paulv said:

There's a way to determine how high/low the qianjin should be using your forearm, but since I forgot it, you can try (I used to always measure this way) to tune the erhu, then "naturally where your finger goes" put your first finger (index) on the string's first position and see if you get the proper notes (E & B from open D & A) - if not, adjust the qianjin accordingly.

Regards,

paul...

I think it was something like you put your elbow on the body of the erhu and then the qinjian went somewhere between the thumb web and the base of the little finger. I'll check to see if I can find a better description.

[davidmdahl]

The qianjin looks a little low, but that's probably not a bad thing for a beginner, and should not be the cause of the wonky D string. The other things I mentioned in an earlier post were the bridge and pad. I have fixed bad sounding erhus with a different, and often shorter bridge. An easy thing to try is to turn around the bridge to see if the problem string changes. I really do get better results with a shorter bridge. Sometimes just a different bridge sounds better, or just different.

If the pad is very loose under the strings, it is probably not doing its job. You may need to remove the bridge to make enough room to fold the felt into a thicker roll and wedge it into place.

I do still recommend contacting Sung Wah at Eason. He will likely have some good suggestions.

Best wishes,

David

[jodariel]

I think I've managed to solve the problem by switching to a higher bridge and being a little more careful with my bowing. But yeah, I'll hit up Eason's customer support services if anything similar starts acting up. Cheers!

[lottie]

Hi
I'm having a similar issue with the lower notes on the inner string. I think mine seems like the other string is being activated as well although I'm just trying to play the inner string, which is creating a muddy sound with too much vibrations on both strings.
I have a gaohu so it has a tiny bridge, someone else tied the qianjin and it looks a bit narrow but not sure if that's the problem. I'm really trying to work on my long bowing technique, it's fine unfingered and on the higher notes!
I will start looking for a teacher near Bournemouth!!

[davidmdahl]

Lottie, your problems may be due to bow hair that is too thick for the distance between the strings. This is determined by the bridge. If this is the problem, it may be fixed with a different bridge, or less bushy bow. Another possibility is a missing or inadequate pad under the strings. Photos and recording of the sound may help us diagnose.

Best wishes,

David