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Post by Si on Dec 17, 2006 2:36:25 GMT
I have finally found oout that the main chanracter is xu yan (that only after i had scanned it and i could see it large size !)but cant understand what is the difference between a normal yan. Anyway I was wondering also what is the green highlighted symbol?
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Post by Si on Dec 17, 2006 2:44:16 GMT
For this one - nope, still cant see it in any of the annals and tomes that I have. Dont know how some of you manage when you get to these tiny hard to see scribbles.
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Post by Charlie Huang on Dec 17, 2006 12:08:35 GMT
Yan = when you got your ring/middle finger already on the string, you strike the string with your thumb one lu above.
Xu yan = same as normal yan except you don't have your ring/middle finger already pressing on the string, thus, creating a more empty sound, hence 'xu'.
Yan (that notation that looks like the bow radical) = 'then', simply after you've played the previous note, you immediately slide up. it really isn't that essential but just marks off that technique. You can ignore it.
Fu = muo a succession of strings, in this case, from string one to string five.
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Post by Si on Dec 17, 2006 15:05:39 GMT
Fu - is that for both those symbols between the an yin and the Wu.
And you mean use Mo finger to play the 5 strings.
Thanks
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Post by Charlie Huang on Dec 17, 2006 21:42:08 GMT
Yes mo.
San yin, fu symbol, then one to five.
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Post by Si on Dec 18, 2006 16:11:06 GMT
Ohh - so the fu is that triangle looking thing and above it is a 1 and below is the 5. OK great. Makes sence now!
Like the new title for the post!
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Post by Charlie Huang on Dec 19, 2006 14:03:12 GMT
No, the fu symbol is after the san yin symbol. The triangle looking one is zhi, meaning '...to...'
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Post by Si on Dec 21, 2006 14:02:17 GMT
Seems that xu yan is a "flying yan" it swoops down from above to hit the string.
I call it flying yan cos it looked like that to me.
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Post by Charlie Huang on Dec 22, 2006 13:16:59 GMT
According to Taiyin Dachuanji, it is like "an echo in an empty valley".
Also, the action isn't 'swooping' as such, more like a descent. It is like pressing on the string with a bit of pressure and shouldn't be simply slapping the finger/thumb down; doing that is likely to miss the string completely plus can create a dead sound rather than a fully embodied one of the string vibrating at both left and right of the finger/thumb. Before the xu yan, your finger should hover above where you're gonna do the xu yan roughly 2-4 cm above the surface, too high and it will be a slap, too low and you won't gain much momentum for the strike.
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Post by Si on Dec 23, 2006 13:09:40 GMT
Ok - first green coloured areas seem to me to mean that i ZHU out past 13 hui but do i dont stay there because a few notes later i have to ZHU again? bottom light blue areas - looks like a qia qi then slide out past 13 hui then dai qi - the second bit has loads of xu yans and something esle in quick sequence - help!
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Post by Charlie Huang on Dec 23, 2006 13:32:04 GMT
You zhu down to 13.2, then whilst you play the open strings of 3 and 2, you take your finger off the 5th string, so you zhu back down again then go to 10. Because the next one doesn't have zhu you should treat it as a special indication of not using zhu, so you (very) briefly lift your finger off the string and then go down to 13.2 as you normally do, then open strings so you do the same as I said in the beginning.
Next bit. You have a qiaqi at 12, slide down to 13.2 then do nao followed by a zhaoqi. Now here comes the tricky bit. You do a xu yan and then a zhaoqi quicky 4 times. Again, don't slap. Your hand should not move, only your ring finger should flex and strike the string then lift off the string (you don't need to produce a very clear sound for the zhaoqi).
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Post by Si on Dec 23, 2006 14:00:27 GMT
so you (very) briefly lift your finger off the string and then go down to 13.2 as you normally do go striaght to 13.2 with out ZHUing? You do a xu yan and then a zhaoqi quicky 4 times I thuoght zhai qi was ment for the thumb to hook the string like a claw. Thanks a lot - such a great help!
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Post by Charlie Huang on Dec 23, 2006 20:04:17 GMT
Yes, you go down without zhu-ing (that bit of the tab where it doesn't have the zhu next to it).
Zhaoqi/daqi is interchangable. It really means to pluck the string with your left finger.
I'm finally getting back to the qin now. Bit rusty but thank the stars I still remember most of the stuff I learnt! Forgot most of Shanshui Qing, but then again I was in the middle of that before I stopped so didn't actually fully completed learning it... Have to readjust my ring finger pressing now since the callous is gone and it now hurts a bit.
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Post by Si on Jan 24, 2007 14:53:51 GMT
Hi -see middle character (its from PAZ) Is this suo ling? if so does it mean play from 7 -4 string in succession, by stopping with ring finger at 10 hui, each time use tiao? All in harmonics BTW. If so what is that character in between the 7 -4? Cos I dont see the same little character on my downloaded internet info. Xie xie ni
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Post by Charlie Huang on Jan 24, 2007 16:05:14 GMT
It is Suoling; lay the rf on the 10h across 7-4s, then li from 7s to 4s in a quick, continuous line.
ㄊ: We've already discussed the character before. It stands for 至 meaning 'to'.
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Post by Si on Jan 25, 2007 12:29:48 GMT
Oh thanks CCC.
Can you write the character for "then" (as in the first post), and one more trouble - is then "ruan ho" in mandarin?
Thanks - i just want to copy all this info into a word file so i can refer to it off line.
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Post by Charlie Huang on Jan 25, 2007 13:12:24 GMT
引: (yin) 'to lead', 'to guide'.
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Post by Si on Jan 27, 2007 16:21:49 GMT
more queries. this looks like slide up to 9, then tui fu back to 10, then back up to 9, then 7.6, 7, then 7.6, 9, then jing fu to 7.6, then finally finish at 9 (5 hours later) When i get to 7 i have run out of sounds already after that its just scraping sounds on the string...... next one - well i assume its zhuang x3 (3 zhuangs) this is PAZ.......................BTW
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Post by Charlie Huang on Jan 27, 2007 20:49:32 GMT
1. Yes. That bit is a special bit in PAZ, when you slide even when the sound goes away. There are two schools of thought. One is that you should keep sliding, even though the sounds runs out (actually, there is still a sound if you slide very quicky to the next position, trying to achieve 'the sound of the strings' or a swishy sound). The second school of thought says that when the sound goes, it is not 'music' anymore, so some will lightly pluck the string to 'force' some sound out of it.
Either way is correct. I prefer the former way because the latter sort of considers the composer to be 'wrong', which I find ludicrous to say the least. Won't go into a philosophical argument on that. You choose whichever way you prefer.
2. That is a 'fan shuang zhuang'. You do a zhuang but in the opposite direction (i.e. downwards instead of upwards) twice.
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Post by Charlie Huang on Feb 14, 2007 19:09:31 GMT
I'm planning on writing a book about qin notation that may be of use to beginners and dapu alike. Note, it is not a teaching manual but a technical manual. With my access to almost all of QQJC, I have a wealth of sources to draw upon. More importantly, it will be in English for once! Here is the plan: ----- Book plan (draft) Title: An Outline of Ancient and Modern Tablature Notation of the Guqin Zither Chinese title: 古今字譜集成 Author: Charlie Huang Contents: Frontispiece Dedication and acknowledgements Preface Contents page Foreword(s) Introduction and methodology How to use this book History of guqin tablature and notation The principles and construction of guqin notation Guide to entries Abbreviation of sources Section 1 – Basic elements Part I: Hui and string numbers Part II: The three ‘sounds’ Section 2 – Right hand techniques Part I: The eight basic fingerings [抹, 挑, 勾, 剔, etc] Part II: Combinations [撮, 輪, 捐, etc] Part III: Sequences [打圎, 瑣, 背瑣, etc] Part IV: Others [歷, 撥, 刺, 滚, 拂, etc] Section 3 – Left hand techniques Part I: The four digits [大, 食, 名, etc] Part II: Slides [上, 下, 進復, 注, etc] Part III: Grace notes [撞, 逗, etc] Part IV: Plucking and striking [掐起, 帶起, 掩, etc] Part V: Vibrato [吟, 猱, 定吟, 飛吟, etc] Section 4 – Right and left hand techniques Part I: Cords [放合, 應合, 如一, etc] Part II: Sequences [搯撮三聲, etc] Section 5 – Indications Part I: Repeats [從「 再作, 三作, etc] Part II: Dynamics [輕, 重, etc] Part III: Tempo [急, 慢, 入慢, etc] Part IV: Others [。, ╴, 、, etc] Section 6 – Rare and obsolete techniques Part I: Right hand [牽, 間抅, 齪, etc] Part II: Left hand [臑, 蹴, etc] Part III: Others [五度蠲, 牙汎, etc] A final note on rhythm and dapu After word Index of notation by stroke count Index of notation by pinyin name Bibliography ----- [sample entry]
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Post by Si on Feb 15, 2007 12:40:40 GMT
Thats some geat news!!!
Nice if can have an illusrtaion or photo of correct technique
Also another thing that would be good - sometimes they dont show if you should chuo or zhu and my teacher said its something you just pick up as you learn the rules of the guqin technique
another good thing might be to show some example of complicated (for beginners) movements like some of the things i have asked about below.
also seems there are different styles of writting the qin pu info - would be nice to have some help on this
nice to have the historical bits too - like in that old book when they show the picture of a crane with a twig for LUN
also good to feature some practices for each technique
maybe you have mentioned these stuff already - but i was just so excited i had to write them down
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Post by Charlie Huang on Feb 15, 2007 15:06:08 GMT
It is meant to be a technical book and not a teaching manual! The only pics will be that of the notation itself. If I start going into correct techniques, etc, it will be way beyond me and frankly, too much effort and time. The main purpose of the book is to list notation that has been used throughout the ages and source them with the descriptions written in qinpu. This is so people can check the information and description of the notation from a historical perspective and make their own minds up as how to execute the technique.
About chuo and zhu: you really can't explain that in a book because as you said, you pick that up. If the qinpu does not indicate either, then you really cannot infer that there is or isn't as that is like changing the original tablature.
About the xingci: including those will take up too much space.
Practices for each technique: again, it is not a teaching manual. I don't think I am qualified to produce a teaching manual with my current experience.
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Post by Si on Feb 15, 2007 16:16:53 GMT
Oh well
At least this is vol. 1
Who will print it - how will it be distributed?
What things would be in the entry from each source section?
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Post by Charlie Huang on Feb 16, 2007 12:00:28 GMT
The translation of the description from a selection of sources will be in each entry.
Publishing: will depend on peer review and market. If I can't publish with the big publishers, then it will have to be self-published.
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Post by Si on Feb 18, 2007 12:44:46 GMT
would be nice to have it bound in the traditional chinese qin pu way....
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