Question about lunzi practice technique

[kuduchi]

I have got to the part with the pipa where I am now learning the lun technique. I am getting comfortable with it but I am not proficient yet.

My question is, is it normal for a beginner to hit the board of the pipa with the fingers as well as the neighboring strings by accident while practicing the lun? For now, I practice with my own fingernails because Im scared of damaging the board by scratching it.

Also, is the lun done on the inner strings as well? If so, that is hard! Sometimes, I even practice the lun in midair ;D

[xindi]

What....?! 6 months and you're not proficient yet?!


(j/k)


Yes - if you are just starting lun zhi, tape a strip of tracing paper across the 'lun' fingering area, from left to right. Just use scotch tape to hold the edges on the stained body wood (not the paulownia sound board). This will protect your pipa whilst you're learning and making mistakes.

Hitting the board and the neighbouring strings is normal when learning lun; your fingers are imprecise at faster speeds. You can only develop nimble accuracy by practice. This is why it's good to buy a cheap US$50 pipa to learn

Yes you can use fingernails, if you have hard nails. My nails aren't hard enough and keep breaking, so I have to use the pipa nail picks.

When you practice lun zhi, and you are finding that you are accidentally hitting the sound board, try angling your pipa away from your body by a few degrees, and re-try the lun zhi stroke with your right arm extended further away from the string. This will make 'just the tip' of your nails' touch the lun zhi string (highest pitch), even if you are not so accurate. With practice, you can reduce the margin of error, and in 6 months, you should be able to do lun zhi on an upside down pipa, or horizontal positioned pipa

I've never seen lun zhi done on the inner [ADE*] strings. The * is usually marked in Jian Pu as the lun zhi, right? There is a movement called 'shao lun' (sorry - don't know the chinese) which is used in the martial style of pipa playing. The 'tremolo' lun which you describe on the inner strings, are actually done with just the thumb nail, oscillating rapidly in tan-tiao across that string. You can do it on the bass A, or inner D, E strings.

Yes - lun needs to be practiced all the time. I practice mine with a flexible plastic tie, which is semi-rigid. People in public transport look as if I'm a complete weirdo, but that's okay, because they probably only know how to play guitar

[rappelz]

What you said it is very interesting.

[kuduchi]

Jul 4, 2012 0:57:58 GMT xindi said:

What....?! 6 months and you're not proficient yet?!


(j/k)

Busy with school xD

Just use scotch tape to hold the edges on the stained body wood (not the paulownia sound board). This will protect your pipa whilst you're learning and making mistakes.

huh? Sorry, you lost me at stained body wood and Paulownia soundboard >_< Do you mean putting the tracing paper on the board near the strings or under them, but just above the sound hole?

This is why it's good to buy a cheap US$50 pipa to learn

Where in the world are there cheap USD $50 pipas?

I've never seen lun zhi done on the inner [ADE*] strings. The * is usually marked in Jian Pu as the lun zhi, right? There is a movement called 'shao lun' (sorry - don't know the chinese) which is used in the martial style of pipa playing. The 'tremolo' lun which you describe on the inner strings, are actually done with just the thumb nail, oscillating rapidly in tan-tiao across that string. You can do it on the bass A, or inner D, E strings.

OMG thank you soooooo much! I was about to give up and die if there were lunzhi for the ADE* strings. I was looking through my textbook praying I wouldnt come across this. For the red, are you talking about the "gun" technique? I am sooo glad for that lol.

Yes - lun needs to be practiced all the time. I practice mine with a flexible plastic tie, which is semi-rigid. People in public transport look as if I'm a complete weirdo, but that's okay, because they probably only know how to play guitar

Ahahaha! I do this all the time! I practice lun on any type of material I can get my hands on: cellphone, chair legs, pencils, fingers. But at the end of the day, hopefully we can be lun masters

But yeah, thanks so much for the advice on tilting the pipa as well! I really appreciate that.

[xindi]

Jul 4, 2012 3:17:54 GMT kuduchi said:

Busy with school xD

Fair enough lol

huh? Sorry, you lost me at stained body wood and Paulownia soundboard >_< Do you mean putting the tracing paper on the board near the strings or under them, but just above the sound hole?

Yes .. you can use an A4 sheet of tracing paper: cut approximately into a 10cm lengthwise strip. Then tack it across the pipa, below the 30th fret, and above the sound hole with tape.

Where in the world are there cheap USD $50 pipas?

Here:






Here's Liu Fang's explanation of the Tan Tiao:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=KslV807X1Eg

The 'Gun technique' - sounds like a term that I made up lol.

Are you referring to the 4.36 minutes and 5:20 minutes sound in the demo here:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5FX3615ZXw

I don't know the proper term for it - the only thing which I call the machine gun technique - because it just sounds like someone being machine gunned [another says it sounds like pots and pans are being banged about lol) is actually a left handed technique. It is used in the martial style which this clip is written in.

Try going back to around 3:25minutes here: you can just catch a glimpse of the delicate Fan Ying (clear bell like tone - another left handed technique). Then, you can hear the lun zhi like thumb tremolo part at 3.37minutes, using thumb only or 6.27 where it's a finger tremolo

.

Don't be daunted by the clip lol! It's one of the virtuoso masterpiece demo clips which combine the richness of the 40 pipa fingering stroke techniques. At our level, we just get by doing Mo Li Hua with two techniques: Tan Tiao and basic 5 finger lun zhi

[Blue]

Be very careful with the boundaries, Xindi as some areas are disputed:

upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/China_administrative.gif [/img]

[thegreatpipaist]

it's depend to what 'species' your lun zi are. in Indonesia, we use two kinds of it. one is the regular (from index finger) and the un-regular (from the last finger). it's un-regular because not every body can do it

[wanwan]

Hi all - Actually we do use lun zhi on inner strings, tho its more commonly used on the outer strings (both of the A strings). I wouldn't worry about it too early tho, because lun zhi on inner strings requires more control on your fingers - the angle and hand position are all different to avoid hitting multiple strings at a time.

Its also normal that you hit the board of the pipa when you practice - it's something that you wanna avoid, but it happens to all of us, even the masters. That's why we usually stick a piece a clear plastic to protect the wood (the thickness of the wood in front does matter to the sound of your pipa)

Hope this helps