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Post by yudingbon on Nov 24, 2011 22:13:13 GMT
As I reading up on qin, (mainly on where to get a good one) I had gotten myself interested the acoustical effects of the lacquer on the instrument.
I build violins as one of my hobbies and have always made my own varnish but I have wondered what a violin would sound like using a lacquer based finish.
Does anyone know where I can get some real lacquer resin? All the stuff I could find was based on petroleum by-products, which I never liked.
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Post by xindi on Dec 10, 2011 21:59:46 GMT
That's amazing. I used to build lego as one of mine and then an 8 year old had to go and show me up. Would Shellac be appropriate? On western flutes, linseed oil (applied in thin coats; dried naturally and reapplied) is sometimes used. You'll know from your own guzheng, that the body of the zither can be waxed, and is lacquered, except for the sound board of course. The wax doesn't alter the sound discernibly..I think it's just there to protect the decorative aesthetics of the guzheng. Maybe for a big instrument there isn't an appreciable sound difference. Then again, with lacquered flutes...vs natural ... the sound differences are so slight to me. If there is a science to the lacquering of instruments, altering the sound qualities, I suppose this principle would apply to sealing the grain structure of wood, and causing the open grain of the wood, to close, or increase resonance in the overall structure of the wood if it was lacquered sufficiently to cause such a shift between the wood's natural grain structure. I guess Stradivarius had mastered this several hundred years ago, and nowadays, all we can hope is to recover some of the brilliant of the post-renaissance era. Btw ... I'm backing away from the qin. I'm too thick to own one  |
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Post by yudingbon on Dec 11, 2011 5:12:00 GMT
From what I have read, lacquer forms a unique bond the with wood that shellac does not. Shellac actually comes from the secretions of a particular insect wheras lacquer is boiled resin from the actual tree. Of course, there are innumerous debates on whether shellac can even be considered a proper violin finish, with most people sitting on the fence about it. Personally, if it sounds good, use it. Of course, my experiments in shellac always produce a much too bright tone.
There has to be a reason qin have always been lacquered. Shellac has, for the most part, always been available to the Chinese, so why lacquer? In fact, there are many different hard resin from various species of trees. Why does that particular one work so well?
~Lucian
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Post by xindi on Dec 11, 2011 21:05:47 GMT
Wow...insect secretions?! That makes shellac sound rather unpleasant! I won't be adoring it the way I used to!
Yes - boiled tree gum sounds more natural and wood friendly. One of the problems with using multi layers of laminate varnishes is the dulling effect - maybe this is related to closing off the wood's pores too much? Whereas I suppose very thin layers applied, might do something to increase internal resonance ... I dunno I'm just guessing. As far as I know, the reason why most raw wood is lacquered/varnished/coated, is for aesthetics/wear and tear protection against moisture/humidity.
Would choosing a denser/different wood type could dramatically shift the sound colour much more than the lacquer itself no?
A lot of chinese pearwood furniture I've seen is also lacquered beautifully. I prefer lacquer to varnish. As for shellac .. I was thinking about it for a furniture project rather than a musical instrument.
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Post by xindi on Jan 13, 2012 19:18:36 GMT
....add in animal lacquer, used on guqins.
The majority of samples had lacquer cracks, like crazy paving over the lacquer. I don't k.ow if this desirable or terrible, and I couldn't discern any outstanding acoustic differences between guqins ranging up to US$700. There probably are micro differences which someone other than me could detect.
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Post by Charlie Huang on Feb 23, 2012 20:42:04 GMT
You can get lacquer from the usual sources that supply samurai sword repairers (the scabbard is lacquered). You need also deer horn powder to mix in with it. Details can be had from Jim Binkley's translation of the Yuguzhai (a qin making manual) which can be viewed online or in book form and my article here: www.ukchinesemusic.org/londonyoulanqin/art-ccc-repair.html |
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maikeru
Novice
Seeking serenity, one string at a time.
Posts: 6
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Post by maikeru on Mar 28, 2012 6:28:19 GMT
Wow...insect secretions?! That makes shellac sound rather unpleasant! I won't be adoring it the way I used to! Shellac is the known term of insect secretions from the Lac Bug, an insect of the Kerriidae family. Shellac is is also used in jelly bean coating. Food for thought, pun intended.  |
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Post by mmoigoldflyff on Mar 28, 2012 8:08:23 GMT
I saw your question, but I'm sorry, I do not know, I hope you do not mind
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Post by gazza on Jun 13, 2012 2:48:10 GMT
I've done much online searching (including sites that import from China) as well as asking various paint stores both big-chain and small business types. Nobody at any shop had any idea, and one website asserts that real Chinese lacquer is retained for local production and not available for export. If you have better luck than me, could you post a link, please.
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Post by rappelz on Jun 14, 2012 2:07:15 GMT
What you said it is very interesting.
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