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Bawu
Mar 30, 2011 19:06:40 GMT
Post by edcat7 on Mar 30, 2011 19:06:40 GMT
Hey Xindi! I envy Your trip to Hunnan and even know of the model bawu you have. In Chinese my 'hands are itchy' and am thinking of upgrading my G bawu. Why did you choose one in F
From the above photo it seems that the 'replaceable' reed will also fit one of my hulusis.
Does a rosewood bawu sound much different to a bamboo one.
Also the finger-holes on my bawu are very small and close together, is that normal, as compared to a dizi I find my bawu difficult to hold.
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Bawu
Mar 30, 2011 21:53:47 GMT
Post by xindi on Mar 30, 2011 21:53:47 GMT
Hi there, Lol - I've been to both Hunan and Yunnan several times. Hunan is much harder to find musical instruments like the hulusi or bawu! Lijiang has at least 7 different hulusi/bawu stores, with the regional towns (Shuhe) offering another 4, and Dali a similar number. I tried all the stores' bawu. The bamboo has a lighter hollower sound than the rosewood for the same key. I think it's down to purely the densities of the wood (maybe the diameter of the bore too? but they all looked the same) and quality of manufacture. The bamboo bawu and the rosewood bawu have similar finger hole placement: you're quite right in that all of the fingerings for the bawu tend to be crammed closely together for the right hand; and again for the left hand, however with the F bawu, the spacing is slightly more generous than the G (spacing varies - tighter for the bamboo types over rosewood, maybe because the flute maker had to drill the holes further apart to get the right pitch). The holes are fairly small compared to low G/F dizi flutes too. I tried a pearwood one - again not as dark as the rosewood. I suppose this is why many hi-fi companies still use rosewood to make speaker cabinets. One shopkeeper was offering an ebony bawu, but I honestly couldn't tell if it was just painted black wood. It certainly didn't feel very dense compared to the rosewood. The rosewood bawu simply sounds richer and deeper - it has a beautiful bellowing purity whereas the bamboo ones sounded thinner. Of the rosewood ones I tried, some looked like painted wood and sounded no better than higher grade bamboo ones. Mine was fairly expensive at £30 (the seller gave me a discount ) compared to £60 for the same one from sellers in the main tourist precinct, whereas the bamboo ones could be had for £5-10. My friend plays a harmonica which is made of rosewood and he concurred that the rosewood sounded better, so no bias there huh. It wasn't a huge amount of money in any case, and it came in a very large decorated presentation box, unlike the cheaper ones which came in a fake red velvet drawstring bag. Now the low F - I got it purely because it offers the lower C pitch, whereas on the G key bawu, the lowest note one above. I guess I have a fondness for pieces in F, particularly where the piece has 2. as the lowest note, rather than 5. as in the key of G. Why an F? Guess I thought it would complement the alto flute and the low G/F dizi, although with a limited octave range, it was the deepest bawu anywhere I had seen, and still as short as a C length dizi. Sorry I can't read chinese - I can't tell who the makers of any of my flutes are. When I've asked friends who can read chinese, they tell me they can't read the old calligraphic characters either. i hope you get the opportunity to travel to Yunnan - you'd absolutely love it, and your chinese would enable you to get more out of it than I did.
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Bawu
Mar 30, 2011 23:28:20 GMT
Post by edcat7 on Mar 30, 2011 23:28:20 GMT
Considering my wife works for an airline I haven't been to many places. We have some tickets to go anywhere in the world ...which we wont be using!
Your description of the various instruments is making me drool.
Ive seen your bawu on sale for US$59 from chinesemusicalinstruments.com. I've got a redwood hulusi from them which they over-charged me for and which sounds ok but the reed may need changing in the not too distant future; so I'm hesitant about using them again.
However you have sold me to your F bawu
Ps. What part of the world are you in?
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Bawu
Apr 1, 2011 4:51:28 GMT
Post by jamgypsy on Apr 1, 2011 4:51:28 GMT
Hi, I'm new here and very happy to have run across your forum. I just received a bawu in the mail today (purchased from melodyofchina.com) and figured out how to play it, but I have a couple of questions. I discovered the unpleasant low note when the air pressure is relaxed; how to avoid it at the end of a note? Should I use my tongue as an air cut-off? Also, should one puff out the cheeks or not? I purchased it to play with a piece of choral music called River Snow--see the link below--but found that the F key bawu plays an octave lower than the one in the video, so I'm wondering if that one really is a ba wu at all or if perhaps it is actually a dizi. Got an opinion? www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7PJB5Nyomo
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Bawu
Apr 1, 2011 5:53:03 GMT
Post by davidmdahl on Apr 1, 2011 5:53:03 GMT
Welcome to the forum, jamgypsy, and to the bawu. The video you posted does feature a dizi, rather than a bawu. These are videos of bawu: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Im6JQ_aQk_swww.youtube.com/watch?v=_IKEtYPL6QIRegarding puffing out the cheeks, I suppose a bit isn't bad, but the Dizzy Gillespie approach might not be the best. I think stopping the air with the tongue may be good for an effect at times, but maybe not the normal way to end a phrase. Listen to recordings and see what the good players do. It is not very musical for the sound to end abruptly. Best wishes, David
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Bawu
Apr 1, 2011 20:32:18 GMT
Post by xindi on Apr 1, 2011 20:32:18 GMT
Ive seen your bawu on sale for US$59 from chinesemusicalinstruments.com. I've got a redwood hulusi from them which they over-charged me for and which sounds ok but the reed may need changing in the not too distant future; so I'm hesitant about using them again. That's not a bad price! It looks like they have some great instruments there. Is it worth emailing them to see if they will offer the reed separately? I was hoping my rosewood bawu would have the same dimensions as the head joint of a similar dizi in rosewood. Wishful thinking Wouldn't it be cool to have a flute which you could just replace the headjoint - a dizi head joint; a bawu headjoint and a xiao headjoint, all on the same body? Well the intonation might be a little (or a lot!) off
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Post by xindi on Apr 1, 2011 20:43:46 GMT
I discovered the unpleasant low note when the air pressure is relaxed; how to avoid it at the end of a note? Should I use my tongue as an air cut-off? Also, should one puff out the cheeks or not? I purchased it to play with a piece of choral music called River Snow--see the link below--but found that the F key bawu plays an octave lower than the one in the video, so I'm wondering if that one really is a ba wu at all or if perhaps it is actually a dizi. Got an opinion? Hi there - welcome! Oops. That is a dizi in the video. The bawu has a more plateau like intensity, whereas the sound of the dizi in the video is more 'rounded' as the music flows. I wonder if you have a low F bawu....there are higher pitched ones, but having never seen a proper soprano F bawu (the finger hole spacing would be perfect for a pixie!) in the same pitch as a soprano F dizi... I'm not sure. I've seen lots of different ways to play the bawu - I wouldn't say any are correct, since it is a folk instrument, and many of the players who used it, played by ear, without reading even jian pu (simplified notation). Most whom I've seen play, don't puff their cheeks out: that is a failure to control the air pressure within the oral chamber. You're right, in that the bawu requires a much higher pressure to vibrate the reed - but the pressure is controlled from the tongue - forcing the air through a smaller opening through the lips so you can play without puffing your cheeks. Reining the tongue control by pushing the tongue forward and up, to end the pressure column from the throat is the simplest way to tongue block. The technique for staccato in the bawu is easier to do with tongue blocking (yes - that's the technique for reeded instruments like the harmonica). I can't say I've heard it done in music, and quite rightly, trying to use the diaphragm or throat to end notes runs the risk of producing overtones. Good luck
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Bawu
Apr 1, 2011 23:51:46 GMT
Post by davidmdahl on Apr 1, 2011 23:51:46 GMT
The technique for staccato in the bawu is easier to do with tongue blocking (yes - that's the technique for reeded instruments like the harmonica). I can't say I've heard it done in music, and quite rightly, trying to use the diaphragm or throat to end notes runs the risk of producing overtones. I don't understand the last line. What does the method of stopping the air have to do with overtones? Best wishes, David
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Bawu
Apr 5, 2011 20:49:48 GMT
Post by xindi on Apr 5, 2011 20:49:48 GMT
I don't really know. The bawu's reed is extremely pressure sensitive - it can be activated by low pressure breath, making a wispy ethereal kind of sound, and by the correct breath pressure, making the resonant plateau like drone. When I play mine, just tailing off the air by relaxing embouchure, or by relaxing breathing pressure, produces those wispy like overtones.
This is probably why I find it more sensible to use tongue blocking, like in the harmonica, to terminate the air flow suddenly, to reduce the risk of other unwanted sounds from creeping in due to careless play!
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Bawu
Apr 5, 2011 22:11:57 GMT
Post by edcat7 on Apr 5, 2011 22:11:57 GMT
I don't understand what an overtone is. But when I play my bawu (maybe because of my hulusi tuition) I don't get unwanted sounds. All I try to do is emulate what I hear on youtube.
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Bawu
Apr 5, 2011 22:36:17 GMT
Post by xindi on Apr 5, 2011 22:36:17 GMT
That sounds like the way to go!
Overtones are just higher sounds (or noise) than the sound you're trying to produce. On reed instruments, like a harmonica - it's easier to produce undertones than overtones by stray air, which is what happens when 'stopping' doesn't happen cleanly.
If you're not getting overtones on the bawu, then you've clearly been taught how to breathe into the hulusi/bawu. Most beginners start by making those wispy noises before the bellowing richer correct tones heard with the hulusi/bawu!
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Bawu
Apr 5, 2011 23:05:29 GMT
Post by edcat7 on Apr 5, 2011 23:05:29 GMT
My first experience of the hulusi was in a street market in Shanghai. When I blew into the proffered instrument I had everyone around me in fits of laughter. I've come a long way since then.
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Bawu
Apr 7, 2011 20:25:20 GMT
Post by xindi on Apr 7, 2011 20:25:20 GMT
Local entertainment Mine was in a Hong Kong store, blowing it gently like a flute, wondering why it was only making wispy gentle overtone noises. I told the shopkeeper it was broke. The shopkeeper told me I didn't know how to blow it, and then tried. He couldn't make anything more than a few wispy noises too. When we checked it - there was no reed lol.
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Bawu
Apr 16, 2011 23:01:02 GMT
Post by edcat7 on Apr 16, 2011 23:01:02 GMT
I assumed that the reeds were mass produced to a standard size. I took apart 6 of my detachable hulusis and they varied in size and shape (though ever so slightly) especially between different makers.
Eason is sending me some reeds together with a dizi purchase. If they are slightly larger then a bit of minor surgery is all that is needed. If they are smaller....Huston..I think we have a problem.
With hindsight it's a good idea when making a purchase to if possible ask for spare reeds.
A reed which is in good condition is shiny with no discolouration
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Bawu
Apr 17, 2011 0:00:33 GMT
Post by xindi on Apr 17, 2011 0:00:33 GMT
In the Far East, most of the reeds I've seen are mottled with brassing and/or corrosion. Guess it's just the humidty unfortunately.
I can't believe you have 6 hulusi's!
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Bawu
Apr 17, 2011 0:36:25 GMT
Post by edcat7 on Apr 17, 2011 0:36:25 GMT
My teacher says that an expensive hulusi/bawu is no guarantee that the top note will not go. Guess he didn't take them apart to examine the reed.
Actually I've got 7 detachable hulusis (not counting the indetachable ones)
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Bawu
Apr 17, 2011 0:49:13 GMT
Post by xindi on Apr 17, 2011 0:49:13 GMT
How do you store them all? Or do you use them to drink wine?! That is how my first gourd came.... The size factor is a huge deterrent for me. Let's hope it's not for you when I catch up to hear you play
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Bawu
Apr 25, 2011 23:03:24 GMT
Post by edcat7 on Apr 25, 2011 23:03:24 GMT
I've been practising double tongueing alot lately on the dizi and have tried it on both the hulusi and the bawu. And yes overtones are produced.
I think I have 2 explanations for this:
i) There is a gap between the intrument and the mouth resulting in a loss of air pressure
ii) not enough diaphragm movement is used for the TK TK TK and TTK TTK TTK and hence loss of air pressure
I think it comes with practice as my teacher who showed me double tongueing on the hulusi did not produce any overtones.
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Bawu
Apr 26, 2011 20:11:33 GMT
Post by xindi on Apr 26, 2011 20:11:33 GMT
I never thought of those reasons. I always put it down to my own personal failing, like, not being able to speak Azerbijiani lol. The funniest tutor I had was a professional performer from Fujian - he wasn't very good at teaching, although he was an impeccably brilliant player. He would say: "listen and do what I do" and proceed to mesmerise me with flutter-tonguing and an incredible vibrato (or maybe that was his asthma)? He insisted that double tonguing was infrequently used - something I was a little perplexed at, since this is standard western concert drill, and a lot of the books I'd looked up in chinese all have sections on T K T K TKTK T K and K T KT KT K - T -. When I asked about this, he would just respond 'Nevermind! Watch me!' and then proceed to fly off into triple glissandi sweeps, fluttering all the way. I was spellbound and mesmerised (breathless! just listening!) as well as somewhat floored thinking I was never going to learn any of that! So much so that my mind went blank and I forgot what I was going to ask. Sure enough ... I learnt nothing which is why I had to quit Your tutor sounds way cooler. If he can teach you to do the high pressure stopping on double tonguing without overtones on the hulusi - maybe it's time to try a guanzi hmmm?
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Bawu
Apr 27, 2011 17:09:42 GMT
Post by edcat7 on Apr 27, 2011 17:09:42 GMT
Xindi
You've influenced me. Just got delivery of a redwood F Bawu from chinese-muscialinstruments.com. Absolutely beautiful, it has a detachable reed section and sounds divine.
David
I asked them to sell me extra reeds. It comes in a liitle plastic box. In it contains 2 C reeds, 2 F reeds and 2 G reeds. They may need trimming to fit your deceased bawu. It cost me $US8 though I'm not sure how much it would cost if you bought it on it's own.
Ed
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Bawu
Apr 28, 2011 21:27:43 GMT
Post by xindi on Apr 28, 2011 21:27:43 GMT
Lovely Ed! Rosewood has a peculiar sound in flutes. I notice that my only rosewood dizi - is not 'bright' sounding, like the others. After thinking I had solved my dimo problems on the dizi with a different manufacturer, I'm finding that my dimo settings are making everything in the treble range sound overly bright. That's the nice thing about a bawu - never bright - just full bodied I bet you're frantically trying to find music for it
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Bawu
Apr 28, 2011 22:37:10 GMT
Post by edcat7 on Apr 28, 2011 22:37:10 GMT
The brightness to your dizi ,could it be you're playing it cold. Before I play I breathe down the dizi and breathe on the dimo.
I play hulusi tunes on my bawu since they have the same range and fingering
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Bawu
Apr 28, 2011 23:03:51 GMT
Post by xindi on Apr 28, 2011 23:03:51 GMT
I tend to warm up the dimo for about 1 minute, then leave it for 5 minutes, and return to it after 10 minutes. Maybe straight after playing alto concert flute for 1 hour, and then going to dizi, gives me the impression that it is much too bright. It could be due to cold, but I think it's something about the way I'm setting the dimo. I've managed to get the full 2 1/2 octave range beautifully on the rosewood dizi (key of D). For the bass G, the bottom note is fluffy, but the rest is there.
I like bawu and hulusi tunes on the xiao. Still trying to get the mammoth breath range required to sustain phrasing for these longer flutes.
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Bawu
Jul 15, 2022 9:39:29 GMT
Post by edcat7 on Jul 15, 2022 9:39:29 GMT
Hi, I'm new here and very happy to have run across your forum. I just received a bawu in the mail today (purchased from melodyofchina.com) and figured out how to play it, but I have a couple of questions. I discovered the unpleasant low note when the air pressure is relaxed; how to avoid it at the end of a note? Should I use my tongue as an air cut-off? Also, should one puff out the cheeks or not? I purchased it to play with a piece of choral music called River Snow--see the link below--but found that the F key bawu plays an octave lower than the one in the video, so I'm wondering if that one really is a ba wu at all or if perhaps it is actually a dizi. Got an opinion? www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7PJB5NyomoHi Jamgypsy So sorry that no one had replied or welcomed you to the forum, you slipped through the net somehow. How did your River Snow performance go? The instrument in the video is not a bawu but a dizi , the bawu has one note less than a dizi so it's unlikely you can play River Snow on a bawu. I had to dig up my bawu to see if there was that "unpleasant low note" when the air pressure was released but I didn't get that when I tried. I wouldn't puff out your cheeks but use the air from the lower part of your lungs to push the air out. Do you still have the jiangpo or score to River Snow? Best wishes, Ed
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