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Post by gili on Nov 15, 2005 14:27:00 GMT
It's neither about devaluing nor if someone feeds them. It's about the balance of the ecosystem so we don't kill everything but human some day. It's about an improvement to the current situation. Innovation is about improvement. While things are not perfect, it is not to say we just dig into the hole until it's too deep to get out. I'm sure one day we'll just have robots, but not animals around us. I'm sure some of us have ivory guzhengs or products. I'm sure their tusks fall out from fights and natural death too. It is not nearly as common as poaching or illegal trade.
Where is the basis for farming elephants? As a matter of fact, most ivory supply is illegal, making it even more valuable. And does someone feed them daily? That's so funny. Do you know how much an elephant eat? Up to 250 tons of vegetable a day. That's why they are part of the wild. Basically, suppliers will give you anything you want if you have money, be it legal or illegal, or they'll tell you it's what you want. Just because they are not looking at the bigger picture, should we too? Yes. Nothing is perfect, but boycott it is an ethically responsible solution. That way, we won't breed the 'ivory-thirst' and hopefully will shift people's attention to make money using other responsible means. While there's no best solution, many guzheng company use cow-bone instead. If we replace cow-bone back with ivory, that's unwinding the civilization clock.
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Post by gili on Nov 15, 2005 16:26:14 GMT
Because more and more elephants with tusks are killed off for their ivory, those naturally borned without tusks have greater chances to breed and passing on their recessive genes, resulting in an increasing population of naturally tuskless elephants. It is a product of selfish human act.
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Post by sunny on Nov 16, 2005 9:47:00 GMT
Gili, I am in Thailand and it is the ancient story to kill the elephant to get the tusks here. Nowadays, the owner can earn much more money from the elephant performance ie; Drawing the picture, Playing football, Doing something funny etc. in the farm showing the tourists. The people here have no idea why they have to kill the elephant for the tusks. I think you should come to visit Thailand so you may know what the elephant farm is. The illegal ivory mostly comes from Africa where the people are not educated and have to survive in that way. More illegal, more valuable, more needs, more killings. I still believe that the small piece of ivory comes from the legal ivory. Only this legal ivory can make the supply in the market not too tight, then the price of the ivory cannot go that high, so less tusks have been sold, finally less natural elephants are killed. Therefore please do not boycott the legal ivory. That will only make the case worse.
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Post by gili on Nov 16, 2005 15:10:19 GMT
It was ancient when Thailand had 100,000 elephants. Today Thailand has less then 4000 elephants. Now Thailand prides herself for preserving elephant. However, when an elephant can no longer farm or perform, people kill matured elephants and poach wild ones in the back yard to supplement the illegal market. Currently, ivory trade is illegal in Thailand unless it is ‘old’ from before the ban law. Asian elephants are the variety that is deeply endangered. In Thailand, half are cruelly domesticated, the reminding in national parks and some a tenth of those suffering in appalling conditions, how can there be a steady legal flow of ivory supply? The Thai elephant population has already drop 95% since 100 years ago. Thailand’s elephant entire population alone cannot support even a year of international supply. Yes. Most ivory on sale in Thailand are not only Asian, but African elephants. Most poached African ivory are sent off to the largest markets, being Thailand and China. As the illegal ivory is confiscated by the officials, they in turn flow into the black market for resale, and then enter the ‘legal market’ to be sold as ‘old ivory from before the ban law’. In Thailand, corruption exists because of loopholes in ivory trade. With some bribery to the corrupted official, the sellers just have to say their illegal ivory is from ‘old ivory’. The real ‘old ivories’ probably all became somebody’s permanent display collection already long before some of those shops opened for businesses. Due to the alarming decline in elephant population, currently there are international laws to protect the elephants. More than 4000 African elephants are still killed each year to supply the illegal market. That equals to the entire elephant population in Thailand! According to the TRAFFIC analysis of data from the Elephant Trade Information System, China, followed by Thailand, Cameroon, the Democratic Republic of Congo, Ethiopia and Nigeria are the most important suppliers, manufacturers, and customers of illegal ivory. The volume of illegal ivory has increased since 10 years ago. Luckily, improved law enforcement in China is again putting illegal trading from uprising. The improvement may partly be a result of international pressure on such a large country. On the other hand, international authority has called Thailand to tighten up their domestic regulation on ivory trade, but effort is totally inadequate. Merely 10% of the illegal ivory trade is being reported in Thailand. In the recent years, even Singapore also failed to report illegal seizures. Vietnam and Indonesia is in line with Singapore for illegal cases. Malaysia is another emerging market. Even Japan used a smuggling hub for illegal ivory. Just think how the sellers can keep selling and the ‘old ivory’ constantly replenished. There is no magic. Ivory is largely sold in Asia. It is almost an Asian problem. Tighter law enforcement has been proven to be effective to keep illegal trade in control. However, the root of evil is not the suppliers, but the buyers. It may be too late to educate some of the older folks because the hunger for ivory has been ingrained in their head. The younger generation is our hope. There is need to educate our children that ivory exploitation is irresponsible, backward and unethical. Education is a solution. If there is no demand, then there will naturally be no supply. Below is a typical elephant story, but this one is luckily rescued from the owner. www.elephantnaturepark.org/herd/boonkhum.htm
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Post by davidmdahl on Nov 16, 2005 16:50:41 GMT
The sad fact is that there is no reliable way for us to know if ivory has been poached or taken "legally". The only responsible, ethical, and legal approach for us is simply to not buy products made with ivory.
There are lots of moral dilemmas for musicians due to the materials often used or considered ideal for instruments or supplies. My dan tranhs came with tortise shell picks, which strictly speaking are just as illegal as ivory. Some of my wooden flutes are made from rare and precious woods.
There is so much corruption in the supply of products from endangered species that it is unlikely that enforcement will solve the problem. The key to the survival of the elephant and other endangered and threatened species is a reduction of the demand for products made from their body parts. It is up to us.
Best wishes,
David
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Post by gili on Nov 16, 2005 17:58:20 GMT
Thank you for your understanding, David.
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