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Post by blueharp on Oct 7, 2004 7:32:13 GMT
I found these websites while browsing the net. www.chinesezither.netwww.rosewoodmi.comChnesezither.net has some interesting tips for selecting a guzheng. I thought that their prices for the high end instruments were high, then remembered reading somewhere that the Taiwanese maker Chung Hwa was very highly regarded. Rosewoodmi.com seems to have a mix of products by various makers. The prices seemed OK until I realized they didn't include shipping. I bought a guqin from Shanghai and the shipping was $185! Enjoy! Steve
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Post by Vi An on Oct 8, 2004 0:55:27 GMT
Hello blueharp,
Thanks so much for the links, chinesezither is new to me so it is very exciting! It holds a lot of good tips for picking out a quality gu zheng! When they say darkened top paulownia sound board, I wonder how dark it needs to be to indicate that poor pieces were combined to form the top sound board??? So maybe I'll ask them more on that.
I guess you can sand it down yourself and find out!
More soon,
Vi An.
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Post by twilight on Oct 25, 2004 5:20:10 GMT
wow! these sites are very good i was thinking of buying a Rosewood guzheng from CCN, the more expensive one. Would anyone know if those guzhengs are of high quality, i.e. having good quality paulownia wood for the top and base? Any input would be very appreciated ;D
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Post by Charlie Huang on Oct 25, 2004 12:28:24 GMT
As far as I can tell, CCN is the best place on the web to buy your music instruments from. Regardless the quality, they are playable and the workmanship is from satisfactory to exceptionally good. It will have a good sound.
I'm not a guzheng player. So, I can't comment on the quality on the guzhengs there, but I would say that they are trustable and it would be OK.
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Post by blueharp on Oct 26, 2004 1:11:23 GMT
I do have a guzheng from CCN and it is quite nice.
Most of the pics on the CCN guzheng site seemed to be of instruments by the Long Feng (Dragon Phoenix) company. Long Feng has a good reputation and mine sounds quite nice.
The model I have appears to have a solid lower board. My first guzheng had a "plywood" bottom board for lack of a better term and this one is nothing like it.
I have not done business with either of the 2 sites I listed, but I have with CCN and find them to be completely reputable.
Hope that helps!
Steve
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Post by twilight on Oct 26, 2004 3:26:12 GMT
;D thank uuuuuuuuuuu these responses are very helpful
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Post by Charlie Huang on Oct 26, 2004 11:21:19 GMT
I do have a guzheng from CCN and it is quite nice. Most of the pics on the CCN guzheng site seemed to be of instruments by the Long Feng (Dragon Phoenix) company. Long Feng has a good reputation and mine sounds quite nice. The model I have appears to have a solid lower board. My first guzheng had a "plywood" bottom board for lack of a better term and this one is nothing like it. I have not done business with either of the 2 sites I listed, but I have with CCN and find them to be completely reputable. Hope that helps! Steve My guqin is of the same Long Feng branding (so it is factory made after all... ). I'm saving up for one made by a master guqin maker.
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Post by davidmdahl on Oct 30, 2004 7:47:33 GMT
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Post by blueharp on Nov 1, 2004 8:23:34 GMT
Fascinating! It is great to learn more about the history of the guzheng.
I attended a guqin yaji in September and one of the speakers was Yin Qiying, one of the original guzheng students at the Central Conservatory back in the 1950s. According to Mr. Yin hardly anyone knew what a guzheng was but almost everyone knew what a guqin was. How things have changed!
The website lists tortoise shell guzheng picks for $99 US. That is outrageously overpriced! They are $28 from CCN and about $6 in China. What makes them so special?
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Post by Charlie Huang on Nov 1, 2004 10:27:01 GMT
The website lists tortoise shell guzheng picks for $99 US. That is outrageously overpriced! They are $28 from CCN and about $6 in China. What makes them so special? Maybe there are made from the shells of tortoises that have been listening to guzheng music for their entire lives... ;D ;D
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Post by Vi An on Nov 1, 2004 16:28:50 GMT
*LAUGHS UNCONTROLABLY* Charllie-san thats great! I thought it was 9.99 at first and thouht to myself DAMN that is a great deal. Yes they grew up right beside a gu zheng being made so they will instantly know what to do once attached onto someone's fingers even if they are a trombone player! Now I'm just being a nut. Vi An.
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Post by davidmdahl on Nov 1, 2004 17:16:39 GMT
Besides the pricey picks, the "baby guzheng" looks too much like a toy to be taken seriously. Of course, the Zu Zhen Gao guzheng may be well-worth the US$2100 price, but I have no way to tell. I imagine the shipping from HK would add more than a little to the total. How much does a first-class guzheng cost in China?
I enjoyed the videos, but found the performance style curious. LunLun has a rather aggressive and flamboyant style. Although I generally prefer more restraint, this is not necessarily a criticism. I do not begrudge showmanship (showpersonship?) when it does not get in the way of the music.
I do find it interesting that many of the younger performers of Asian music perform mostly flashy music and almost dance while doing so, while the old masters play to the soul without seeming to move very much.
Best wishes,
David
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Post by Vi An on Nov 1, 2004 22:25:22 GMT
Well different pieces call for different body movements, it is all dependent on how the piece makes you feel. In the end its just how the music comes across and the rest is just a small part of it. I'm not too critical about that.
For me as a performer, I have started to adopt how classical pianists play, lots of emotion and movements based on the flow of the piece. I don't exert excess movements though, which I find sometimes I do see zheng performers (male or female) do too often for no reason!
For a performer its about the whole package and showmanship you are right. Depends on the performer if they are expressive both with their body and musical ability comes through in their performance.
That is why I set up the new thread:
"Minimal Zheng"
This is to express the beauty of the gu zheng is most of the time hidden and you really have to listen for the sweet parts. The zheng sounds ridiculous if played too agressively, unlike the Koto! You have to be aware and listen to yourself over and over again to make sure how aggressive you can be with the zheng I found.
Good for LunLun for all that she is passionate for with getting the music of the zheng out there. Except I have still not found that most amazing zheng performer out there yet. I think I will only find them when I'm not looking because most of them are still probablly really young and doing very modern pieces. Only the ones who can do very traditional or very experimental seem to be recognized the most.
Well maybe one day I'll start my own world of spontaneous improv gu zheng music! See how far it will go.
Keep tuning,
Vi An.
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Post by Vi An on Nov 1, 2004 22:31:10 GMT
Furthermore you have to look like you are enjoying what you are playing or else to me you look like a sculpture and you are way too good for the audience.
I like to have eye contact with my audience I find this captivates them even more, head up and almost a small sway with the music. I used to sit like a sculpture until one of my teachers screamed at me for looking too rigid.
Can't please everyone I guess. But also, I don't like that it is almost "expected" that classical arts must be so serious and world music too is expected to be so serious, no one has fun anymore!!! So in a way Lun Lun is a good fun performer. Except its nothing super original.
Still waiting to see something truly original without being toooooo experimental or toooooo flaming maybe?
*Laughs loudly*
Vi An.
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Post by davidmdahl on Nov 2, 2004 1:26:59 GMT
There is a point in performing when showmanship bypasses the music and becomes histrionics. Natural movement is important to the process of making music. It not only aids in communicating with the audience, but is how the body works when we use it properly.
On the other hand, over-emoting can be counterproductive. As an audience member, I find excess movement to be distracting, and can make the process of making good music more difficult. What is too much? The trouble is that it can depend on the performer. What seems appropriate for one performer is over-the-top when another does the same thing. Some performers be incredibly expressive without moving much at all, while others seem to put all their expression into "dancing" and have little left for the music. If they can do it all, I guess I can close my eyes and focus on the music. <g>
Chinese music can have so much elegance and power when allowed to speak for itself. Showboating can be fun as a diversion, but if it is the normal mode becomes something like too much sugar.
Best wishes,
David
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Peter Kahl
Novice
Guzheng instrument designer, winner of the Japanese Product of the Year 1999 and 2000 award
Posts: 11
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Post by Peter Kahl on Nov 2, 2004 3:26:59 GMT
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Peter Kahl
Novice
Guzheng instrument designer, winner of the Japanese Product of the Year 1999 and 2000 award
Posts: 11
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Post by Peter Kahl on Nov 2, 2004 3:38:56 GMT
Yes, I have also seen some pianists and thought that their body movements during performance were ridiculous. But I don't know enough about playing a piano.
Now, if I can speak as an eye witness on Lunlun's behalf, she doesn't move her body for showmanship.
It is simply her playing style, which requires that her whole body (or most of it, because her body parts are connected) moves. She has enough confidence and skill, she can play the instrument blindfolded. She doesn't play notes, she puts her feelings into her play. Unlike the old masters, Lunlun has departed from old traditions. She has developed her own style, which may seem controversial. But why is individuality so bad? Does every musician have to be made by a cookie cutter?
About the 12 Girl Band .......... There are bands of musicians who stand out because they dance while playing their instruments. They are not playing the instrument, but only pretending. The music is only playback. That is a showmanship and the whole entertainment is not so much in the music itself, but in .......
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Post by davidmdahl on Nov 2, 2004 4:14:06 GMT
Regarding the picks, if they are of elephant tusk ivory, there may be problems getting them in the USA, at least legally. There are exceptions, but it gets very difficult to tell the difference between legal and poached ivory. I wonder what the story is with LunLun's ivory picks.
Regarding movement, pianists are all over the map as with many other instrumentalists. Some pianists don't move very much and others move a lot. This goes for jazz and classical.
I really did not intend to criticise LunLun or her performance style. The videos on her web site did set me off on one of my pet peeves, but she does have the technical and musical chops to do what she wants. I do tend to enjoy Chinese music best when it is more lyrical and expressive, rather than showy. I suppose I should buy her CD to get a listen to more of a sample of her playing, but at $25 it will probably wait until I really want to treat myself.
Best wishes,
David
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Post by Vi An on Nov 2, 2004 4:38:06 GMT
Heya David, Her CD is just $14.99 -- maybe a treat coming on? I myself enjoy original compositions and look for innovative modern pieces for gu zheng but it is so hard to come by. Hense I try to create my own. The learning process on gu zheng is infinite -- I love this journey!!! I wanna jam with LunLun *G*. Just finished playing on the dan tranh for 3 hours now, gosh -- its not an easy instrument to play, you can be so lyrical with it and it sounds like the human singing voice; so when you play it you have to be as if singing through the instrument... Best played with steal finger picks! Showmanship is important in being a performer, showmanship comes in many forms, dress, aditude and expressive value. People come to a concert to view, listen and enjoy -- so a performer must meet all these needs. If you want to close your eyes and drift away it is best when you are laying in bed with headphones listening to your resting music. I believe that as a lover of music I like to be engaged by the performer, I like to participate in whats going on through being emotionally moved with the performer and energy charged! Or on the flip side I could also sit back and take it all in. I guess it is different for me when I enjoy other musician's music, being a musician myself I get very involved mentally with the performance. Sometimes I just have to forget all that and just enjoy the music for what it is. I still get very nervous every time I have to perform! More soon, Vi An. My best.
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Post by Vi An on Nov 2, 2004 4:47:05 GMT
Hello and welcome to Peter! I have joined your gu zheng forum group in yahoo. I am interested in your gu zheng designing as I am always seeking out new designs for my specific needs in a custom made instrument, so its great to have you here! Do you construct your gu zhengs "traditionally" or do you mix and match materials for unique needs? I ask because: 1) I'm still in search of the most "right" or most ideal (I'm not going to say perfect because there is no such thing) BUT, an instrument that isn't super heavy; 2) An instrument that is most superbly made and most durable to stand the tests of time and weather; 3) An instrument with the widest possible range with booming deep bass, rich mid and brilliant high; 4) An instrument with 30 strings; 5) Proportions are also important for me as I would love the zheng to stretch 6.5 ft in length for longest sustains; I have said too much, but this is only a dream. Dreams do come true right? I always expect better than best, especially in myself and in products I am willing to spend large sums of money on! Vi An. Keep well all!
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Post by davidmdahl on Nov 2, 2004 5:13:13 GMT
I don't find anything to disagree with in your comments about showmanship, Vi An. It is a critical part of any performers skill-set. A top-notch musician who cannot connect with audiences will get fewer gigs than a mediocre musician who does know how to communicate with the audience.
Yes, the dan tranh can be very beautiful and expressive. I have mixed feelings about ensembles of them, however. Squadrons of the things not tuned quite right can sound like a hive of angry bees.
I prefer the shell picks to metal, since they (shell) is easier on the strings. Maybe the metal picks are better for performing, but I don't need to play very loud when practicing.
Best wishes,
David
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Peter Kahl
Novice
Guzheng instrument designer, winner of the Japanese Product of the Year 1999 and 2000 award
Posts: 11
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Post by Peter Kahl on Nov 2, 2004 8:57:38 GMT
Hi David and Vi An,
I attended a piano concert recently. It was quite amazing to see the pianists body movements and facial expressions.
For example, one lady was making quite extreme body movements, as if dancing ballet, which I thought was very exaggerated. She was not a good pianist at all. Another gentleman, was very geeky looking and acting ... while playing was staring at his seat, as if there were some notes ......
Vi An .....
I am sure Lunlun would love to jam with you. Too bad you live so far. We visited the States in June, but we didn't know you then.
Keep sending me your Guzheng wishlist, you never know. I don't play guzheng, but I watch Lunlun all the time. She strikes the strings so much, no Guzhneg can withstand. The bridges keep jumping all over. Then the strings are off pitch, and it doesn't sound pretty.
My impression is that the Chinese Guzheng quality (design and construction) degraded over time, whereas the Koto is quite a bit better.
We already had some prototypes made earlier, but have to do more work.
As far as bridges, we will try the Japanese ones .....
Lunlun doesn't want 30 string instrument (yet), but we can always have one made for you, and you never know, she may try it and like it !!!
I liked it when you said you want a guzheng that's 6.5 feet !!!!
I know of some extremely large Kotos ...... like a boat. Must have great bass.
Later, Peter
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Post by Vi An on Nov 2, 2004 17:08:15 GMT
Peter, How charismatic you are! Thank you for your great response. I will continue to make wish lists and if you can find a way to have a 30 stringed gu zheng made for me that would just so wonderful and please let me know the price range as I am willing to pay all at once $1500USD. I just have a few specifications in terms of design that I would need met but that is about it. For example I love how the main bridges are designed for the Japanese koto, the end caps are a light frame with a dark rectangle in the middle. The angle of the cut for the main bridges are 90 degrees and I find it gives a very edgy sound! I wouldn't want to have any carvings nor inlay work done to the frame of this instrument, just the look of swirly wood grains and the colors is perfect for me! Paulownia is much lighter than rosewood, so I am wondering now if the entire body of the gu zheng can be of paulownia?? For the main bridges I'd like padouk wood I think. Is padouk a harder wood than rosewood? For the sound holes I'd like paudouk wood as trims too. Ofcourse the top and bottom sound boards must be well aged single pieces of paulownia! The spacing of the strings don't need to be as wide because I have small hands. The inside of the tuning box must NOT have green padding, I like to see natural wood grains in there too! The little nuts that the strings come out from must be little flowers instead of just rings. I think rosewood would stay my prefered wood for bridges, except maybe another sort of design would be better. I like bridges not to be too tall or too short maybe a variation between Dunhuangs and the Japanese koto bridges. Oh yes -- speaking of koto bridges, DO NOT USE koto briges with your gu zheng strings because of the shape of the grooves, gu zheng strings will BUZZ a lot and rattle like crazy on the koto bridges! Those bridges are designed specially for the tetlon strings. I love tetlon strings! Okay enough with me time for another person to post! Thanks, Vi An. PS: Peter and LunLun I'm in Calgary, Alberta -- Canada not the States, maybe one day I can suggest to the Chinese Music Association here to help fund for LunLun to hold a few recitals here and I can be her little helper at the recitals ofcourse!!!
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Post by Vi An on Nov 2, 2004 17:22:36 GMT
Yes, the dan tranh can be very beautiful and expressive. I have mixed feelings about ensembles of them, however. Squadrons of the things not tuned quite right can sound like a hive of angry bees. I prefer the shell picks to metal, since they (shell) is easier on the strings. Maybe the metal picks are better for performing, but I don't need to play very loud when practicing. Best wishes, David -- David, Thank you for that. On the topic of Dan Tranh, I totally agree with you about too many tranhs playing together *oh dear me* yes it totally sounds like a hord of angry bees!!! I always wondered in my mind what it sounded like so thank you for that analogy! ;D Lastnight was the first time I really put to use the metal picks (American made for steel string guitars actually) and listening to the sounds from the tranh sounded exactly how I hear them played by masters in some CDs and I wasn't able to produce those same tones before using shell picks which gave a more warm deep tone. Metal pics gave me a more pronounced and bright pure tone which sustains a lot longer than with shell picks I noticed for the first time! Anyhow, this forum is really chirping -- this is so great! My best, Vi An.
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Post by davidmdahl on Nov 2, 2004 17:29:56 GMT
A large guzheng could have great bass, but it is likely that the size will affect the sound of more than just the bass. This could be fine for some music. The Austrian piano maker Bosendorfer makes some larger models, one of which is the 9'6" Imperial Grand, with nine extra keys in the bass. I have played on one of these and the sound and extra resonance throughout is startling, especially in the bass.
I have heard larger models of the Vietnamese dan tranh but it appears to be tricky to make the lower strings sound good. Maybe a large guzheng will work better because of the greater tension in the strings. I am not sure that the light design of the dan tranh suits it well to be made large.
Comments?
Best wishes,
David
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