Learning to play the Pipa through the Internet ...

[kc]

Hi Guys,

Wanted to take the challenge of  learning to play a new music instrument for fun and decided to go for the Pipa. Resources teaching the Pipa on the web are a bit scarce in English and although I can speak Mandarin I am not able to read or write chinese except for the most basic characters. Maybe it's time to learn the language in tandem ..   Googling with some key chinese characters especially the word Pipa ( 琵琶 ) produces , surprisingly, enough youtube tutorials to get me excited while waiting for my Pipa to arrive. All of these videos will benefit from an english subtitle track if of any use to non-chinese users - maybe good for a latter project.

A couple of questions here. How long would be a plausible period would it takes to learn the basics? I have given myself a year to get comfortable . Too optimistic   ? No basic music training although I have dabbled and played the erhu and dizi in a small chinese orchestra about 20-30 years ago. Bones and fingers are definitely stiffer now.What would be best and fastest way to systematically 'master' this instrument ? Not expecting  detail answers but rather your personal experience and advice .

Is there anyway for beginners (and sifus ) alike to exchange learning tips in a group? I am thinking about something like whatsapps . Appreciate any feedback.
 
and thanks for this forum ....
kc

[davidmdahl]

Welcome to the forum, kc. Some years ago I acquired a wonderful pipa with the idea of self-learning. I found it to be a very challenging instrument to learn without a teacher, and ultimately sold it. Although I have had some experience learning musical instruments over the years with and without a teacher, I decided that at least for myself, the pipa is not a good choice for dabbling. I suggest that even with a good teacher, it is likely to take at least a year to get a handle on the basics, but will likely take longer. Without a teacher, it is hard to predict any time adequate for learning basic technique. When learning to play any instrument, it is not enough to spend a lot of time practicing, although that is important. It is critical to practice the right things in the right manner at the right time.

Of the Chinese stringed instruments, the zhongruan and liuqin are probably the best choices for a self-learner. The zhongruan in particular is a lot of fun, and it is relatively easy to sound good on it. The liuqin is a lot like a mandolin, and looks like a baby pipa.

If you are determined to go the way of the pipa, I suggest contacting Dr. Samuel Wong for advice. He sometimes checks in here, but probably is more accessible on Facebook.

Best wishes,

David

[kc]

Thanks David for your warm welcome and advice.

Dr. Samuel's Pipa document is what piqued my interest in this instrument. His explanation of the symbols and techniques involved removed a roadblock in my mind to at least have confidence mastering the basics without trying to decipher from some chinese , to me, alien literature. Will look forward to any help in future from the guys here .. a bit quiet though

In additions to watching Pipa's videos , I am also reading up Guitar playing techniques while waiting for my Pipa to arrive ... and doing hand and fingers exercises ...

Hopefully can post updates later ... Kc

[edcat7]

There's a guy here who plays flamenco guitar and has taught himself the pipa. To my untrained ear he has done a very credible job. The downside is he's probably been playing flamenco for decades.

[kc]

Apr 13, 2015 18:12:55 GMT edcat7 said:

There's a guy here who plays flamenco guitar and has taught himself the pipa. To my untrained ear he has done a very credible job. The downside is he's probably been playing flamenco for decades.

Haha .. maybe that's his upside !!

My nephew collected my Pipa from the music shop a couple of weeks ago and I've got it yesterday evening . Was very happy until I found some accessories included in the purchase not in the package. I can't do much without the artificial nails and growing some may take a similar amount of time to getting the supplier to post me the missing items. Looks I have to wait a little while more ....

Initial impression though is the 1st string looks a bit delicate . No wonder getting a spare set is not an option. Glue joints of frets to sound board is very obvious but the body is gorgeous. Supplied semi hard case is adequate but zippers are flaky . One actually broke. Will post some pictures in this forum when I learned how to.

A question here. Is there anyway to check the basic 'true-ness' of this instrument ? Some simple tests, maybe ? I know there's a guide to do these checks on the classical guitar. For me like any instruments / tools I purchased it can only be as good as it is made . Any advice welcome .

Kc

[edcat7]

[quote

A question here. Is there anyway to check the basic 'true-ness' of this instrument ? Some simple tests, maybe ? I know there's a guide to do these checks on the classical guitar. For me like any instruments / tools I purchased it can only be as good as it is made . Any advice welcome .

Kc

[/quote][/p]

On a general note only buy from a reputable vendor. For pipas I'd use Easons or Redmusicshop. Be suspicious if it's too cheap to be true. We've heard of problems from one vendor but it's not for me to pass on second-hand info publically here (no matter how good the source is).

Having said that if you are familiar with classical guitar less than $500 doesn't buy you much and you'll need to spend at least three times that much for a decent "factory" one. And times that by two if you want a luthier one.

Ed

[kc]

First notes May 2015 ...

Artificial nails finally arrived together with a few accessories. I used the following Youtube video www.youtube.com/watch?
v=R1yNgqksXkQ as a guide to wearing them on my fingers.The nail shapes for the thumb and little finger are different enough from the
other three supplied which look similar to me in term of form and size.

My first session over the weekend consisted of just plucking and feeling the Pipa and trying to play the first three notes of the
first string at the first fret position. The Pipa came already tuned so did not tried turning the pegs.

Here are my first thoughts.Any comments welcome.

1) This is not going to be easy.
2) String no 1 is thinnest and can feel like a blunt knife.
3) Fingers stretch needed for the first fret position notes D , E and F is a bit too much for my untrained hand.
4) The Pipa is heavy and felt heavy but the feel is beautiful.

Attached some pictures of what I have. I am not sure what is the white stuff around the head and peg area.Some dirt too.Frets are
carved bamboo glued to the sound board.
The tutorial VCD supplied has the same Yang Jing videos www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJOW_nmMw_I from Youtube.These come
with english subtitles.

However I find the following www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1KGMF5OIKU simpler for me to start with. Although I cannot read chinese
yet, I do understand basic spoken Mandarin so after 10 or more iterations watching this video I am starting to unravel some of the
jargon used.

Kc

[kc]

A little update and thoughts here ....

The Pipa is difficult to learn !!! Nothing like any instruments I have tried. And this is only being just to be able to finger and
play a scale!!! Major problem here when your left hand and wrist hurts after every 5 notes . Tried subtle variations of Pipa placement
and posture but only improvement (slight) seems to come from the practice sessions. No 'magic' position found yet.

Here is another video on the Internet that I uses .... www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG69Oq7Wbvg ... looks so easy ..

My left wrist was broken when I sat on it during a volleyball game in my younger days . Job done by the doctor then was not exactly
immaculate so compared to my right wrist this joint has less stretch when you are trying to do the duck style kungfu pose. Hopefully
this is not the source of all my problems.

Fingers 2 and 3 , middle and ring finger are not cooperating. They are very awkward , seem to stick together. This is especially
obvious for example when in left hand position 2 , trying to press and sound 6 (lah) and 7 (Ti) with my little finger hovering on the
do (1) fret.

I am not sure how these hiccups will go away with time and practices . Any suggestions welcome . Meanwhile will continue reading
every thread and post in this forum while doing hand and fingers exercises at every opportunity ...

Latest target ... One and a half year to playing a simple song on the Pipa.

[kc]

Attached a picture taken of 4th string at  the 6th fret of my Pipa with a ruler in mm on top to measure the height of the action. Would like to seek comments on whether this is a normal and a default setup and nothing unusual for the measurement taken.

[kc]

Hi Guys,

A little progress update. Other than basic scale practices I have also started to learn the lun.The third and fourth fingers are starting to response but they get lazy and tired when more effort are put in. Guess you just cant't rushed things.I have also been doing fingers stretching exercises when they are not doing anything during the course of the day.
The Pipa looks like one instrument where you need to have all the basic techniques mastered before you can sing your first song ...

Best wishes, A Merry Xmas and a Happy New Year 2016 to all ... Kc

[andyrrgrstevie]

Hi
I'm a self taught pipa player from Indonesia and all I heard from the net is "pipa is the hardest and the most complicated".

It's true because the techs of pipa is endless. Proffesionals and professors in China keep developing new techcs. The extension of this instrumet is endless for it's richness. To be honest, pipa is really complicated, but it's hardness is a new challenge and beauty of pipa.

I never got a formal teaching from anybody. All I do is watching videos and concerts then I try to mimic them. It's even harder for me because in my town Pontianak, we're not learning Chinese music. What we're learning is Thewchiewnese music. Because Thewchiewnese music using Chinese music instrument, society called it Chinese music. Our standards of proffesionality worth basic in mainland China.

But in the end I managed to 'almost' master "Dance of the Yi Tribe". All I learned by myself. So it's not impossible to learn pipa on internet. But in the end you still need a food portion of practices and a bit of talent. If you need some advices about pipa techinques feel free to ask

[krzysztof]

Aug 28, 2015 3:28:38 GMT kc said:

Attached a picture taken of 4th string at  the 6th fret of my Pipa with a ruler in mm on top to measure the height of the action. Would like to seek comments on whether this is a normal and a default setup and nothing unusual for the measurement taken.

Is that 6mm.


The action is usually measuring from the octave or 12th fret in guitar but maybe for pipa this is as high as you might usually go.   So far down the lute neck if it is as much as 6mm, it's no problem if the rest of the fretting is pitching good.   I've seen some pipas and the action is much greater than we are used to with guitars.   If it feels high, check your stringing has the loop under the bridge.   If it's not the setting up and it sounds okay, it is probably just high action because it's a cheap budget pipa?

I'm more erhu than pipa though.  Great to see someone try pipa.  How is your lun?


 

[kc]

Dec 28, 2015 8:38:59 GMT andyrrgrstevie said:

Hi
I'm a self taught pipa player from Indonesia and all I heard from the net is "pipa is the hardest and the most complicated".

It's true because the techs of pipa is endless. Proffesionals and professors in China keep developing new techcs. The extension of this instrumet is endless for it's richness. To be honest, pipa is really complicated, but it's hardness is a new challenge and beauty of pipa.

I never got a formal teaching from anybody. All I do is watching videos and concerts then I try to mimic them. It's even harder for me because in my town Pontianak, we're not learning Chinese music. What we're learning is Thewchiewnese music. Because Thewchiewnese music using Chinese music instrument, society called it Chinese music. Our standards of proffesionality worth basic in mainland China.

But in the end I managed to 'almost' master "Dance of the Yi Tribe". All I learned by myself. So it's not impossible to learn pipa on internet. But in the end you still need a food portion of practices and a bit of talent. If you need some advices about pipa techinques feel free to ask

Hi andyrrgrstevie,

Thanks for sharing your experience. I would agree that learning the Pipa for me is very difficult even at the basic level. I am still having difficulties finding the best posture and hand positions after 6 months . Hopefully it's not something physical   . The videos on the web make it look so easy   . Anyway with time I am making a little progress .. at least I can practice a bit longer without getting too uncomfortable . Since this is just a passion to learn the Pipa I am not overly bothered by the high standards of China's performers. They are very good but I guessed that is after many years of hard learning.

It would be nice if I can hear your rendition of the "Dance of the Yi Tribe". How long have you been learning this instrument? Haha , I have nothing to offer you in return    Rgds , kc

[andyrrgrstevie]

Dec 29, 2015 1:21:59 GMT kc said:

Dec 28, 2015 8:38:59 GMT andyrrgrstevie said:

Hi
I'm a self taught pipa player from Indonesia and all I heard from the net is "pipa is the hardest and the most complicated".

It's true because the techs of pipa is endless. Proffesionals and professors in China keep developing new techcs. The extension of this instrumet is endless for it's richness. To be honest, pipa is really complicated, but it's hardness is a new challenge and beauty of pipa.

I never got a formal teaching from anybody. All I do is watching videos and concerts then I try to mimic them. It's even harder for me because in my town Pontianak, we're not learning Chinese music. What we're learning is Thewchiewnese music. Because Thewchiewnese music using Chinese music instrument, society called it Chinese music. Our standards of proffesionality worth basic in mainland China.

But in the end I managed to 'almost' master "Dance of the Yi Tribe". All I learned by myself. So it's not impossible to learn pipa on internet. But in the end you still need a food portion of practices and a bit of talent. If you need some advices about pipa techinques feel free to ask

Hi andyrrgrstevie,

Thanks for sharing your experience. I would agree that learning the Pipa for me is very difficult even at the basic level. I am still having difficulties finding the best posture and hand positions after 6 months . Hopefully it's not something physical   . The videos on the web make it look so easy   . Anyway with time I am making a little progress .. at least I can practice a bit longer without getting too uncomfortable . Since this is just a passion to learn the Pipa I am not overly bothered by the high standards of China's performers. They are very good but I guessed that is after many years of hard learning.

It would be nice if I can hear your rendition of the "Dance of the Yi Tribe". How long have you been learning this instrument? Haha , I have nothing to offer you in return    Rgds , kc

The videos sure looks easy. But I guess I'm the type of fast learner so I master one particular technique real fast. I suggest you watch te pipa tutorials by yang jin. Her tutotials are the best so far, and it's english subtitled.
I can record you my rendition of "Dance of the Yi Tribe" but I can only gat a hold of pipa once a week. I don't have my own instrument, I play at a local community, they lend us the music instruments there so the quality of the instruments are real bad (the instruments are more like public facility). But I'll try my best to record it

[kc]

Dec 29, 2015 0:46:06 GMT krzysztof said:

Aug 28, 2015 3:28:38 GMT kc said:

Attached a picture taken of 4th string at  the 6th fret of my Pipa with a ruler in mm on top to measure the height of the action. Would like to seek comments on whether this is a normal and a default setup and nothing unusual for the measurement taken.

Is that 6mm.


The action is usually measuring from the octave or 12th fret in guitar but maybe for pipa this is as high as you might usually go.   So far down the lute neck if it is as much as 6mm, it's no problem if the rest of the fretting is pitching good.   I've seen some pipas and the action is much greater than we are used to with guitars.   If it feels high, check your stringing has the loop under the bridge.   If it's not the setting up and it sounds okay, it is probably just high action because it's a cheap budget pipa?

I'm more erhu than pipa though.  Great to see someone try pipa.  How is your lun?


 

The 6th fret of the Pipa is an octave higher than the note of the open string so I guess it should be similar to the 12th fret of the guitar. The other missing 'frets' are in the 'Xiang' section at the neck of the instrument.  Total number of frets is 24.
For the the classical guitar with the first fret pressed , recommended height at the 12th fret is about 3.2mm for the heaviest string (from Sheare Classical Guitar Method). My measurement for the Pipa is without anything being pressed. Since I have not tried any other similar instruments I am curious to know what is the norm. As a beginner I do feel it takes quite a bit of effort and concentration for now to produce a note from the 4th string without any strange noises.

The 'lun' is unique to the Pipa and I am starting early to learn it. Nothing solid or similar sounding yet and everything breaks down when your fingers get tired. My initial aim will be to practice it until enough muscle memory and muscle power built up to look into the details .... wish me luck , kc  
 
  

[krzysztof]

KC

yes if you check the 1st xiang, the action distance must be at least 3mm in order to avoid touching other 29 fret all the way down so in the middle of the pipa the action is going to be higher.

I never see the 4th string fretted much above the 6th fret. You can get this note on the open 2nd string - loudness, resonance and easy with tan tiao

Good luck with lun

[daidai]

Apr 10, 2015 1:01:03 GMT kc said:

Hi Guys,

Wanted to take the challenge of  learning to play a new music instrument for fun and decided to go for the Pipa. Resources teaching the Pipa on the web are a bit scarce in English and although I can speak Mandarin I am not able to read or write chinese except for the most basic characters. Maybe it's time to learn the language in tandem ..   Googling with some key chinese characters especially the word Pipa ( 琵琶 ) produces , surprisingly, enough youtube tutorials to get me excited while waiting for my Pipa to arrive. All of these videos will benefit from an english subtitle track if of any use to non-chinese users - maybe good for a latter project.

A couple of questions here. How long would be a plausible period would it takes to learn the basics? I have given myself a year to get comfortable . Too optimistic   ? No basic music training although I have dabbled and played the erhu and dizi in a small chinese orchestra about 20-30 years ago. Bones and fingers are definitely stiffer now.What would be best and fastest way to systematically 'master' this instrument ? Not expecting  detail answers but rather your personal experience and advice .

Is there anyway for beginners (and sifus ) alike to exchange learning tips in a group? I am thinking about something like whatsapps . Appreciate any feedback.
 
and thanks for this forum ....
kc

[daidai]

Gao Hong has written an extensive Pipa Method book in English - the first of its kind. It will be published through Hal Leonard this June and is already available for pre-order though Amazon.com. It comes wit a DVD showing the playing techniques and many scores. It is suitable for Beginners through Intermediate levels and also has a very valuable section for composers.

[kc]

Hi Guys ,
Nearly 8 months since the last update. Not much to show except to say that I've just managed to do a 'real' 4 fingers lun. Not that it sounded crisp or accurate yet but .... . I have been practicing from day 1 the lun and although in slow mode I can do one in 4 seconds , I was not able to get it up to speed anywhere near 1 lun per second. That was a couple of weeks back.
Break-thru came when I deciphered one of LDH 's pipa book and he mentioned something along the line that slow and fast are two different techniques altogether ... starting with slow exercises may never leads to a fast outcome.
So I started to swipe my Pipa left and right much faster ... any comments welcome .... Kc
Also ...
Found the following tutorial on the net.
www.youtube.com/channel/UCmyvU0jNSTxXrx_7sGvY8xw

and this needs no languages to understand ....
Lun in slow motion.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=dldK1Sgo4xo

[ntp0210]

I've had the opportunity of learning the pipa with a teacher in San Francisco that graduated out of a Chinese music conservatory. The pipa is one of the hardest instruments to learn. Without a teacher, you will not be able to play it correctly, or bring out the true essence of the instrument. I have heard stories where even the professionals are still studying weekly with masters. It is definitely a lifelong instrument, and will probably take more than a lifetime to master it. The techniques are endless.