from violin to guzheng

[violinvampire]

hello all..

Im a newbie in this forum and will explore the world of guzheng soon. I have ordered my instrument and im sooo excited to get it.

Before joining this thread, I did my own research about guzheng and still there are some questions Id like to ask. Hoping all members who have guzheng experience can help. I know violin and guzheng are both different instruments but I somehow comepare the 2.

1. in setting up the guzheng, I saw a youtube video on tightening the strings. The video says " tighten it as as tight as possible" so:

how tight is tight?

2. are guzheng strings strong?

3. how long does a typical guzheng string last before it snaps?

4. will my violin background help me in my playing?

5. are there any videos focusing on how to install new strings?

thank you for your help

[davidmdahl]

Welcome to the forum, vioinvampire, and congratulations on your upcoming guzheng.

Regarding your questions:

1. Depending on the source of your guzheng, the strings may already be at or close to the appropriate tension. Hopefully you will only need to reinstall the bridges. The advice to "tighten it as tight as possible" is very bad advice, and completely ridiculous. If there are no instructions accompanying your guzheng, then contact the vendor and ask for help. It is not particularly hard to get the bridges back into the correct positions, and tune up the strings, but it is possible to break strings and even damage your guzheng if you go about things in the wrong way. If the strings arrive very loose, and the vendor is not responsive to your questions, then write back here for advice. If you go ahead with installing the bridges and the strings need substantial tightening, be sure to raise them gradually. Don't bring one end or the other up to pitch all at once.

2. I have never broken a guzheng string, and I am on my second guzheng. The strings are strong, and unlikely to break once they are at an appropriate tension.

3. I think it likely that the typical guzheng string simply wears out before it breaks. I have played strings that have a dull sound and don't resonate well. I would have a spare set of strings on hand, just in case, but I don't think string breakage is common.

4. Your ear and musical senses will help you with any instrument, since you presumably are used to practicing and listening. The numeric notation (jianpu) common for guzheng takes a little getting used to, but familiarity with staff notation should help.

5. Look for videos and other information from Carol at www.soundofchina.com . I know she has some Youtube videos on guzheng. Maybe she has something on restringing.

You don't mention anything about plans on finding a teacher, but if possible that is your best bet. There is a lot to playing the guzheng that will be new to you, and will be hard to pick up from videos and books. A teacher will save you a lot of time and help you avoid learning bad habits. There is a list of Guzheng teachers on Carol's website in the Resource section. Hopefully there is someone near you.

Best wishes,

David

[violinvampire]

hello David..

thanks for prompt responses.


1. Re: setting it up, I used this video please take time to listen and watch...

youtu.be/IoxwC5y03Qg

Care to share more thoughts?

2. I actually bought a guzheng beginner book and yeah I had a slight headache understanding jianpu haha but I will learn (feeling determined).

3. Do you have videos of your own on guzheng I could watch?

thanks......

[davidmdahl]

That's a good video from Carol at Sound of China, as I recommended. However, she does not say to tighten the strings as tight as you can, just tight enough that you can still lift the strings up about an inch. The point of it is to have enough tension in the strings to hold the bridges in place. If you get the strings too tight, you will not be able to lift a string to get its bridge in place, so it is probably better to error on the side of loose. Watch the video a few times to follow what Carol is doing. Don't only go by what she says, note what she does and how she does it. If you have questions, she would be a good resource to ask.

I have not posted any videos of myself playing guzheng, but you can find a few of me on youtube playing other instruments, such as dan bau, dan tranh, and erhu. For example, search for david dahl dan bau.

For some wonderful guzheng performances, check out videos by my teacher Li Ruisi Search on Youtube for ruisi guzheng.

Best wishes,

David

[Ruisi]

Hello vioinvampire,
I appreciate your determination! Hope my suggestions would help.

1. The statement of " tighten it as as tight as possible" is not right. Then how tight? It is determined by both the position of the bridges and the right pitche of each string. Typically,:
1st step, we fix the distances between the bridges and the edges at the right side as follows:
distances from highest string (closest to you)are: #1 string 15cm; #3 (green) string 19cm, #8 (green) string 32cm; #13(green) string 50cm; #18 (green) string 75cm.
You will need to adjust other strings between these fixed ones accordingly.

2nd step we tune the strings according to the tuner (Normally included in the package of your purchase).Beginners learn with D key first, namely D E #F A B in a scale.

When you finished these 2 steps, then strings are tightened up correctly.

2. are guzheng strings strong? Yes, in modern times, the core is made of steal, and the outer layer is nylon. So strong enough.

3. how long does a typical guzheng string last before it snaps?
It depends how intense and how frequently you play. Normally, it last for years, especially for beginners. But for people who are preparing test or competition etc, often practice over 5 hrs/day, it may wear out within a year or even several months.

4. will my violin background help me in my playing?
Definitely yes.
In terms of technique, the vibrato and bending note by left hand is very important in playing guzheng. So your left experience in Violin must be helpful.
In terms of music, you know how to make music expressive and beautiful, which are important in playing all kinds of instruments.
In terms of knowledge, you have established basic concepts in music, like beats and rhythm, etc.

5. are there any videos focusing on how to install new strings?
From my teaching experiences, I directly help with my students to install in the beginning. Later, I'll teach them hand by hand . May be you can try to find some resource online. Or you can find a teacher or instruments store locally to help with this issue.

Good luck and enjoy the music,
Ruisi

[violinvampire]

thanks for the replies.

By the way, it seems the seller gave me a free gig bag for my upcoming guzheng..

when we use that gig bag, do we loosen the strings and remove the bridges and start retuning them in case I need to travel?

General speaking any tips on how to take care of guzheng?

I know one: Never use alcohol or strong liquids to clean it

Thanks and I really appreaciate the help.

[davidmdahl]

When you ship your guzheng, or store it for long periods, loosening the strings and removing the bridges is a good idea. It is not necessary to do this when simply transporting the guzheng in the gig back to a lesson or performance. The gig bag should have enough room for the guzheng with the bridges installed.

Care of the guzheng is pretty simple. Clean dust from under the strings with a soft dry rag or towel, or use a guzheng brush. Never use furniture polish on any musical instrument.

Best wishes,

David

[violinvampire]

hello


as of 2pm today (Taiwan time) 11/20/2014, I received my guzheng. yehey.. so i followed the video on how to set up guzheng and tried to understand what is being done and alas.....


i snapped strings 1, 2, and 4....


seller said they will order for me i have to wait maximum 1 week

[davidmdahl]

I am sorry to hear of your bad luck with the strings. Did they break when you were installing the bridges, or when tightening the strings to bring them up to pitch? If the former, you only need the string tight enough to hold the bridge in place before tightening. If you are breaking strings when tightening them, you either may have the bridges too far to the left, or maybe the tension is uneven on both sides of the bridge. Since the top of the bridge is a friction point, sometimes the string does not slide easily over the bridge. I often wind up pushing on the strings on both sides to get the tension equalized. The further the bridges are to the left, the longer the sounding length of the strings, and the tighter they need to be. Ordinarily there is a lot of room to make the strings tight, and usually experienced players adjust the bridges for tight strings for better sound. For a beginner, it is usually better to start with the bridges closer to the right. This results in strings that are not quite so hard to press, and this is much easier on the fingers.

Best wishes,

David

[violinvampire]

thanks David.

the string snapped while tightening them i tighten the string 1,2 and 4 as being done on video.. meaning i removed the bridge and tightened them.. suddenly it snapped.

i tuned the rest in D major since they say that is the standard key. i was so nervous that time since i snapped 3 strings in an instant haha.

i hope the string would arrive soon. i ordered 2 sets of string numbers 1-5

[davidmdahl]

The point of tightening the strings without the bridges is to take up some of the slack so that the bridges will stay in place. You don't tighten the strings up to pitch without the bridges. In the video, Carol shows that the strings are tight enough to install the bridges when you can still lift them about an inch. As I wrote in an earlier post, it is probably better to error on the side of loose.

Never tighten the strings up to pitch when the bridges are not installed! Also, when you are tightening a string, it is often a good idea to loosen it a bit as you pluck just to make sure that you are working on the right string.

Best wishes,

David

[violinvampire]

thanks.. im just so determined to learn this instrument

question related to worry snapping of strings.

Given fact

~ guzheng is new and new strings will go loose easily -

which is good move, tune the string using the wrench slowly or just move the bridge slowly ?

in violin, we have what we call "fine tuners" near tailpiece so we dont have to turn the pegs all the time specially if the string just went loose very little but we do use the pegs if major loosing of the string occurs.

how does this work with guzheng?

thanks

[davidmdahl]

Most tuning on a guzheng is done with the wrench. The bridges can be moved if you lift a string up a little. I usually leave the bridges where they are and tune with the wrench. You need the fine tuners on a violin since the friction pegs make it challenging to make small changes. This is not the case on the guzheng.

Best wishes,

David

[violinvampire]

i see..

so i will just use wrench and turn the string pegs (those silver thingy inside the guzheng compartment) SLOWLY hahahaa...

whew! i am so excited to receive my replacement strings and start restring strings 1,2 and 4.

thanks David.

more questions coming up but i also browse posted topics here. For all I know my question is already aswered years ago.

[carol]

Where do those strings break? It certainly doesn't sound normal if a string broke while tightening without the bridge on it. It takes a lot of tension to break a string without the bridge! One string would be hard to imagine already, and you said you snapped 3 strings?
It would make more sense if the string snapped while trying to raise it to the bridge height when the string is too tight. It's more common that the string snaps at the bridge tip when trying to tighten with tuning wrench.

If they broke at the end, maybe the string threading wasn't done right.

[violinvampire]

hello,

i have tuned the guzheng already yeheeeyy...


so if D major is the tuning

where are the flat notes?

I am trying to capture the.song WO JIA ZAI HUNI (I only care about you)
by Teresa Teng

Any idea how to do sharps and flats?


i am also trying out the guzheng lessons from Sound of China in youtube.


thanks

[violinvampire]

impromptu question:

are guzheng boards ~the one where we place the bridges~ are they really rough surface or smooth surface?


thank you

[davidmdahl]

The top sounding board on a guzheng is likely to be a little rough. There is probably more than one way to make a good sound board, so I don't know what to say that could be wrong. I tend to like guzhengs where the board looks and feels reasonably natural. Dunhuang sound boards tend to be on the dark side, from the baking treatment they do on the wood. That results in more of a traditional sweet sound. You could ask Carol Chang about it. Maybe my teacher Ruisi will have some comments. What is behind your question?

Best wishes,

David

[davidmdahl]

Nov 27, 2014 15:00:51 GMT violinvampire said:

hello,

i have tuned the guzheng already yeheeeyy...


so if D major is the tuning

where are the flat notes?

I am trying to capture the.song WO JIA ZAI HUNI (I only care about you)
by Teresa Teng

Any idea how to do sharps and flats?


i am also trying out the guzheng lessons from Sound of China in youtube.


thanks

I am not sure that I understand the question. The guzheng can be tuned to D major, and this is common. The strings in D are, starting from the second string up from a colored string: D, E, F#, A, B, or as notated in jianpu: 1, 2, 3, 5, 6. Of course, in D major there are no flats. If you want to play notes that are not available with an open string, such as 4/G or 7/C#, just press the string next lowest in pitch.

Best wishes,

David

[violinvampire]

hello David

Re: guzheng top board, i just observed it as i practice nightly. i cant help to think "is it normal" I asked the same question when i wad learning violin, when i asked is the neck really unfinished but my friend says it is for sliding reasons. Sorry i think it is a stupid question hahaaha


Please look at this link


youtu.be/dRkgTVmB7vc

i play this on violin so how did player play the notes?


by the way, i practice 4 hours a night after my work 2 hours of youtube lesson then 2 hours of discover while learning technique.


thanks

[davidmdahl]

Nov 28, 2014 5:42:04 GMT violinvampire said:

hello David

<snip>
youtu.be/dRkgTVmB7vc

i play this on violin so how did player play the notes?

<snip>

What do you mean? Which notes? As I wrote, any notes that cannot be played by an open string are pressed into tune by the left hand. This can be seen in the video. If you are asking about something else, please clarify your question.

David

[violinvampire]

hello,

Thank you for your patience.

let me paraphrase my sentence.

the music on that link is entitled Wo Jir Zai Hu Ni. I play that piece on violin.

I attempted to play that link on my guzheng but when i tried to press the other end for notes that cant be played on open strings, it seems i cant get the correct note.

is it possible i am not putting much pressure?

thanks again...

[davidmdahl]

This video should help to explain how to bend notes:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVmnvmV5Nvs

I suggest though to work through the earlier videos first. There are other things to learn before bending notes. Plucking correctly is very important to get a handle on first, for example.

Best wishes,

David

[violinvampire]

thank you so much

[violinvampire]

to anyone who says violin is the most difficult instrument... nooooooo...


challenges for today:

1. i get confused with Flower or Not Flower piece

2. string numbers ~ question ~ do you recommend putting stickers on the right side?



got tired from practicing... goodnight