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Post by zixinus on Aug 28, 2014 6:44:40 GMT
Xiao thread I have recently received my xiao. It is a 8-holed, G-tuned xiao. I have managed to start playing on it after a while, although getting used to the vertical embochoure is different. I have made the decision to be a cheapskate and brought a cheaper two-section xiao instead of the three-part I originally intended. I have brought it from redmusicshop. I have some questions in how to play. For reference, I play an inherited Schwelder-system[/quote] side-blown flute for several months now. I can play the second octave on that but still having problems getting the second octave reliably mid-play. I have more trouble doing it on xiao as well. I have some questions regarding my xaio. -First and foremost, how should I do maintain my xiao? I brought a xiao brush also from redmusicshop. Am I just supposed to push it in and out? I have did this and got what look like wood-ish flakes. Am I supposed to use the brush dry, or with oil or water? I got a cloth bag for it. Any advice on how to avoid cracking, beyond obvious things like not letting moisture stay in or use it as a club. I understand that I must prevent moisture soaking up in the wood because then the inside of the wood will expand while the dry outer part won't, thus causing a mechanical stress that results in splitting. -Tuning. What is the A4 standard for xiaos? Using an Android tuning app, it seems that 440-ish seems to be good. If this is the case, is this a new thing to adept to western/international music standards or a historic coincidence? - A question regarding construction: on the underside of the xiao (relative to the holes I have to cover) there are 6 holes. As an experiment I have covered these holes and I could not do D note. I take that this is where the air goes out. If this is the case, why is the xiao longer than that? - With a 8-holed version I can do natural Fs and As. Beyond F# and A#, can I do any other sharps/flats on the 8-holed variant? Remember that my xiao is a G-tuned. - Finally, I have received a chinese knot with the flute. Am I supposed to put this on the flute itself or just hang it as charm? |
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Post by davidmdahl on Aug 28, 2014 19:24:54 GMT
Congratulations on your xiao. As for your questions about care, you will find this a frequently discussed topic, so you might find something useful among older threads. I have good enough results with simply keeping my wood and bamboo flutes in plastic bags, when possible. This probably helps to reduce the speed of humidity changes in the flutes. I also do my best to keep my flutes away from direct sunlight and other heat sources. I did suffer a crack on a wood flute that was resting on a shelf above my computer station, back when the screen was a CRT. Not a good thing to do. Swabbing out the flute with a dry strip of cloth or brush after playing is a good idea. Be very careful not to jam too much cloth down the tube, or it might bunch up and get stuck. Also, don't leave a swab or brush in the flute.
Historically, flutes and other Chinese instruments were probably tuned to whatever was desired, or local practices. Certainly the A440 standard is a relatively recent thing, along with other changes influenced by Western music. I haven't played any old Chinese flutes, but I bet the holes were in different places than is common now.
Most dizi and xiao flutes are longer than they need to be, and have venting holes below the finger holes that are meant to be left open. I suspect that the longer length affects the sound, but don't know exactly how.
I don't have a 8 hole xiao fingering chart handy, but that is your best bet for figuring out how to play accidentals. You will probably need to experiment a bit to find what works best though.
You can use the knot if it helps balance the xiao, but that is optional. I find them mostly annoying.
Best wishes,
David
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Post by Flolei on Aug 28, 2014 20:25:26 GMT
Hello, Here is the fingering chart I made for my xiao from D to high G#. As each xiao is a little different, some fingerings may work less well on your xiao. As David wrote, you must try by yourself if you hear that proposed fingering doesn't work well. G xiao fingering.pdf (50.14 KB) In China you can buy shorter xiaos, but it is always specified that these shorter instruments are for beginners. Best regards, Flolei |
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Post by davidmdahl on Aug 29, 2014 15:36:18 GMT
There may be some short styles of xiao intended for beginners, but not all are. There are long styles, such as the qin xiao, used for playing with the guqin. The dong xiao is usually fatter and shorter, along the lines of a Chinese shakuhachi.
Best wishes,
David
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dino
Novice
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Post by dino on Sept 16, 2014 17:19:19 GMT
Congratulations on your xiao. As for your questions about care, you will find this a frequently discussed topic, so you might find something useful among older threads. I have good enough results with simply keeping my wood and bamboo flutes in plastic bags, when possible. This probably helps to reduce the speed of humidity changes in the flutes. I also do my best to keep my flutes away from direct sunlight and other heat sources. I did suffer a crack on a wood flute that was resting on a shelf above my computer station, back when the screen was a CRT. Not a good thing to do. Swabbing out the flute with a dry strip of cloth or brush after playing is a good idea. Be very careful not to jam too much cloth down the tube, or it might bunch up and get stuck. Also, don't leave a swab or brush in the flute. Historically, flutes and other Chinese instruments were probably tuned to whatever was desired, or local practices. Certainly the A440 standard is a relatively recent thing, along with other changes influenced by Western music. I haven't played any old Chinese flutes, but I bet the holes were in different places than is common now. Most dizi and xiao flutes are longer than they need to be, and have venting holes below the finger holes that are meant to be left open. I suspect that the longer length affects the sound, but don't know exactly how. I don't have a 8 hole xiao fingering chart handy, but that is your best bet for figuring out how to play accidentals. You will probably need to experiment a bit to find what works best though. You can use the knot if it helps balance the xiao, but that is optional. I find them mostly annoying. Best wishes, David |
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dino
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Post by dino on Sept 16, 2014 17:24:10 GMT
Hi David,
sorry for not knowing how to find the answer to a simple question, that probably has been asked before.
I have played metal flute a long time and have lately listened to some nice flute music played on a dizi 6 hole flute and am interested in getting one if I can find out where to find a fingering chart that show how to play the notes used in western music (all 12 of them) for the whole range the flute i capable of playing. Have been offered a 6 hole dizi in C to an interesting price and if I can find a fingering chart I will buy it.
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Post by Flolei on Sept 16, 2014 19:26:55 GMT
Hi, Here is a chromatic fingering chart for 6 dizi. As you see, your C dizi can go from sol3 to do5.  Best regards, Flolei |
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Post by davidmdahl on Sept 16, 2014 21:51:33 GMT
It's not necessary to apologize for asking questions. I was not try to beat you up over it, but rather to point out that there is quite a bit of information already on the forum. Over the past ten years in operation, there have been more than 18,000 posts. I encourage you, and everyone, to explore the Search capabilities of the forum. To get started, just click on the Search button third from the left just under the Forum name at the top of the page. Be sure to select the date range of the search, or you will just get recent results.
As for a six hole dizi, you will find that such a flute plays in a few keys easily, and other keys rather challenging or completely impractical. A C dizi will play easily in G, C, and the relative minors of those keys, or Am and Em. For playing other keys, you can sometimes half hole to get certain notes, but this is very challenging at speed. Most of use simply have a collection of dizi flutes in the keys we find useful. I have rarely found a need for playing in keys other than G and D, although I do like C as well. Some dizi masters have taken to adding finger holes, in order to play chromatically. Some years ago I attempted to play a 10 hole bamboo flute in Hanoi, and it was rather humiliating. I think that 7 or 8 holes is manageable though. These are more common with larger flutes though.
Best wishes,
David
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dino
Novice
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Post by dino on Oct 10, 2014 11:32:33 GMT
It's not necessary to apologize for asking questions. I was not try to beat you up over it, but rather to point out that there is quite a bit of information already on the forum. Over the past ten years in operation, there have been more than 18,000 posts. I encourage you, and everyone, to explore the Search capabilities of the forum. To get started, just click on the Search button third from the left just under the Forum name at the top of the page. Be sure to select the date range of the search, or you will just get recent results. As for a six hole dizi, you will find that such a flute plays in a few keys easily, and other keys rather challenging or completely impractical. A C dizi will play easily in G, C, and the relative minors of those keys, or Am and Em. For playing other keys, you can sometimes half hole to get certain notes, but this is very challenging at speed. Most of use simply have a collection of dizi flutes in the keys we find useful. I have rarely found a need for playing in keys other than G and D, although I do like C as well. Some dizi masters have taken to adding finger holes, in order to play chromatically. Some years ago I attempted to play a 10 hole bamboo flute in Hanoi, and it was rather humiliating. I think that 7 or 8 holes is manageable though. These are more common with larger flutes though. Best wishes, David Thank you David, Now the flute I bought never arrived and the seller issued a refund, so I am to start over again. I take this as an omen that the C dizi is not what I needed, and gave me more time to listen to other flutes on youtube. The sound of the F-bass is a lot appealing to me and even though being a bit more expensive it will also be longer, so I want to know how large hands are needed to play such a long flute, I think it is almost one meter? My right hand will have no problem with 11cm grip for the four holes. Is that sufficient? Or need I go down to a G-bass? Higher pitch shorter flute. Another question is the bamboo quality: Is the Sheng Fei bamboo a good material or is Bitter bamboo equal or is there another material that will make a better flute. I live in an island where the temperature is mostly around 30 degrees and seldom is below 25 but occasionally above 35 degrees. Carrotmusic claim that the Sheng Fei bamboo is much better, so would the SD502B 7-hole F-bass www.ebay.de/itm/261356946317?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT be a good choice for me (if the F-bass will fit the span of my fingers)? Thank you again john |
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Post by Flolei on Oct 10, 2014 15:38:45 GMT
Low F has not a very rich repertoire in traditional Chinese music. Which tunes appealed you? Low G is really more usable. For the stetch, the problem is more that low F is really heavy and challenging for the left hand.
I have no experience with sheng fei sold by Carrot, so I cannot comment. The only thing I can say is that material is less important for dizis than for xiaos. I have bitter bamboo, purple bamboo, wooden dizis... If the embouchure is well made, the flute well-tuned and the material is good, all sound great. I cannot say the same for xiaos.
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Post by davidmdahl on Oct 10, 2014 17:09:50 GMT
I suggest that for most beginners, a dizi in the keys of Bb, C, or D is the best choice. The D dizi is probably the most useful for playing with other musicians. The low keys are best for experienced players. A teacher can help determine how large of a stretch you can handle without hurting yourself or learning bad habits, but if you are on your own, then it is better to play it safe.
Best wishes,
David
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dino
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Post by dino on Oct 10, 2014 20:12:59 GMT
www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnFVl8c5pS0www.youtube.com/watch?v=9omyv5zAZKYwww.youtube.com/watch?v=YyEyYxg1sQs - fantastic sound even when playing high notes. www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJZwuGL3bm0All the above music is appealing, partly because the beautiful low key the flutes can play in and even when reaching higher octaves the sound is mellow and pleasing to my ears. The sound of the shorter flutes are close to the sound of piccolo metal flutes. I have been playing a C-metal flute for years and want to play lower than it can go and a bass or even alto metal flute is out of my economic range if it shall be of a quality I will accept. Shorter than a G-bass dizi does not sound pleasant in my ears. I am not going to play traditional Chinese music, nor am I going to play with other musicians. I play for myself and the birds on my mountain. Few people come there so not many will be disturbed and the birds don't seem to mind my company. As for teachers, I doubt there are any here, as when asking for a dizi in a many a shop owned and run by very friendly Chinese people I have so far not come across one person that even knew that a wooden flute was anything else than a plastic recorder (I buy many Chinese vegetables and am particular fond of wasabi). Bad habits: I do not smoke, do not drink alcohol, stopped driving fast cars, use my mountain-bike to get fit and have now more lung capacity than I had when I was 20. That is long ago. Any advice is appreciated and a G-bass does also sound OK in my ears but only almost as good as the F-bass. So now I am looking for a fingering chart for a 7 hole bass dizi if it will be a F-bass or G-bass I have not yet decided. About the bamboo: Is any of the bamboo types less prone to temperature changes and being transported in a backpack from sea level to 1500 meter altitude than other? If I have to pay 100 Euro for the flute I might as well pay a bit more or maybe less if that can get me a better quality. Thank you Flolei and David
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Post by Flolei on Oct 11, 2014 7:13:32 GMT
Yes, I understand better now. You want to play modern or Western music with your dizi. In this case, of course, you will have many pieces to play with both low dizis. As you can see on the videos, low G is more comfortable for the left hand, it is very obvious. So, if you have not extra large hands, I would avoid the low F at the beginning. These bamboo flutes are less heavy than western metal flutes, but the stretch for the left hand is challenging (as the 6 holes low A - my favorite dizi with low Bb one - is challenging because of the right hand). Other thing: for playing with other is G more useful, it is the same tone than Irish traditional flute and many other flutes, so guitarists and other will appreciate if you will play in G and D, very common tonalities. The guy on the videos often plays DHX flutes (I cannot be sure in this concrete case). You can get one good from Eason (I got one for the New Year three years ago). Here is the low F: www.easonmusicstore.com/webshaper/store/viewProd.asp?pkProductItem=326Here is the low G: www.easonmusicstore.com/webshaper/store/viewProd.asp?pkProductItem=325I have three low G and it remains the best sounding one. Of course, with shipping cost it will cost about 200 USD, but it is a good value. The fingering chart for both flutes is the same, only that with low G it is quite similar to Western metal flute and with low F all sounds one tone lower. |
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dino
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Post by dino on Oct 11, 2014 8:35:56 GMT
Hello Flolei, You have low G-bass flutes, if it is not too much to ask you to measure the distance between the holes for the left hand as you mention this is the place that is being most difficult and then maybe also the holes for the right hand. That way I can see if the holes are easily reached with my hands and I assume that the holes for an F-bass the holes will only need 1½cm or around ½ an inch larger span, and if that is fine with my hands I will buy the F-bass. I use Large size bike gloves. The guy demonstrating the flute on the eason web site is playing a flute that is quite a lot out of tune. www.easonmusicstore.com/webshaper/store/viewProd.asp?pkProductItem=326 |
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Post by Flolei on Oct 11, 2014 9:12:50 GMT
Between middle of the first hole and the middle of the second hole I measure 3,5-3,6 cm
Between middle of the second hole and the middle of the third hole I measure 4,2-4,3 cm
I don't hear it out of tone, but maybe your ear is better than mine. I only hear in the scale at the beginning of the video that the Bb is a little low, what is normal, as he plays the Bb with a cross-fingering (natural note is B, not Bb). You must consider that dizi is fundamentally a diatonical instrument, not chromatical.
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dino
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Post by dino on Oct 11, 2014 13:52:14 GMT
3,7/3,8 - 4,3/4,4 is no problem for my left hand. This is what is needed on a G-bass, yes? Do you know if the F-bass is much wider or just a millimeter or 2?
3,2/3,3 - 3,0/3,1 - 4,0/4,5 is OK for my right hand, so do you think I will have a problem there?
I think that if it is a Bb he is playing instead of a B then it is closer to correct, but in my ears a bit high then. Having heard most western music I am not used to scales that are different, but I often listen to music from India and there half or quarter nodes are common and on some of their long flutes the sound is just incredible. These flutes for spiritual music from India are so long that they are impossible to transport so not for my use.
If a F-bass need larger hands than I have got, then it will have to be a G-bass for me.
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