|
|
Post by amarena on May 13, 2012 19:24:22 GMT
Hi everyone,
I'm new of this forum so nice to meet you all!
I'm trying to learning to play Dizi on my own since yesterday (when I got my flute on the local Lutherie, I don't know what is it in english). It is actually Ding Xiao Ming's (I guess that it's the maker's name) Qudi on C, about 67 cm long.
I've never play any flute before, except a little bit of Irish Tin Whistle.
On my Qudi I can play the first octave without too much problem (except breathing techniques that I don't know yet), however the sound is very very low... and harsh... it's unlike the sound of the Qudi's I've heard on youtube! On these videos the sound of the same type of Qudi is much higher and nicer.
Is it normal because I'm a new learner that never play flute before or is it because of my flute that might be not of great quality? If I use the true Dimo instead of office tape to cover the mokong, will the sound get better?
Thanks in advance,
Amarena
|
|
|
|
Post by wenceslas on May 13, 2012 19:45:09 GMT
Welcome to the forum Amarena. Erm what do you mean by very very low? Yes the sound will be brighter and higher with dimo.
|
|
|
|
Post by edcat7 on May 13, 2012 19:56:14 GMT
Yes, the sound will be brighter and higher with dimo but don't put it on too tightly or the sound will be dull.
|
|
|
|
Post by wenceslas on May 13, 2012 20:14:41 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by amarena on May 13, 2012 20:19:57 GMT
Thank you for your fast responses!  What I mean with the sound is too low is that the first octave (the only one that I can play) sounds too... low?  Well, when I saw the demonstration of this flute by the lady on the musical instrument store, the sounds is on a higher pitch when she played on the first octave... At least she told me that it was the first octave.  When I play it, it feels like that I played it an octave lower than her. But then, she put a Dimo on and I just broke it at home so I replaced the Dimo with a scotch office tape. I will try with Dimo papers then. Anyway, does anyone have any suggestion of simple chinese tune for beginners...? Actually I'm not supposed to do this I guess but now I'm doing St patrick's An Dro (a Breizh Celtic tunes) on my Dizi because I'm bored with doing scales and I don't know much tunes that can be played in only one octaves ;D |
|
|
|
Post by wenceslas on May 13, 2012 20:25:41 GMT
Hey Amarena, I guess it may be your holding method or the blowing angle... all this can affect the tone especially the blowing angle. As for the simple Chinese tune for beginners... do you know how to read numeric scores?
|
|
|
|
Post by amarena on May 14, 2012 9:09:51 GMT
Thanks for your response wenceslas!  You may be right, I will try varying the angles too then. I am learning to read numeric scores, but it's not yet something that I am used too. Before this I played the piano so I learned by classical music sheets and currently I'm learning the Irish Traditional Musics by ear so there's no scores at all. But I guess that I can always learn to read the jianpu. If you have any suggestion of tunes, please let me know. I'll try to play it according to the scores or if it doesn't work, I'll try to find videos on youtube and do it by ear Thanks in advance |
|
|
|
Post by edcat7 on May 14, 2012 9:31:47 GMT
It seems we have quite a few members here who came via the Irish flute. It's also been commented that when they play it doesn't sound 'Chinese' enough. I didn't understand that comment until recently. I suppose if I tried playing something Irish it would sound Chinese.
PhillipR does both and he has a website you'd be interested in.
|
|
|
|
Post by Flolei on May 14, 2012 9:58:46 GMT
Yes, it is really interesting. Members who came to dizi via Irish flute seem to have some big qualities (more flexibility, good habits to learn melodies by ear, good ornementation habits) which make problems to members who came to dizi via Boehm's flute and who have maybe only one big quality: the embouchure and tone accurency.
|
|
|
|
Post by Flolei on May 14, 2012 10:00:06 GMT
Ah, sorry, I forgot to add: Ed is right, Phillip knows a lot about this!
|
|
|
|
Post by edcat7 on May 14, 2012 10:30:19 GMT
So how come Flolei you are good at everything?
|
|
|
|
Post by Flolei on May 14, 2012 10:38:28 GMT
... So jokes with me a man who plays 1001 instruments! Ha, ha, ha! |
|
|
|
Post by edcat7 on May 14, 2012 10:55:43 GMT
Yes, master of none
|
|
|
|
Post by wenceslas on May 14, 2012 19:56:08 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by xindi on May 14, 2012 20:36:13 GMT
Hi Amarena,
Sounds pretty similar to the problem described above, where the bamboo flute is converted to a dull tube, without the correct dimo + application.
Have you had any success of late?
67cm is a standard alto range dizi. Should be bright and vibrant.
That's okay - that's what I used to do, before moving onto the O'Neills & Slow Airs. I don't listen to ITM at all these days so I'm rather useless at the decorations.
If you can find cornamuse music, or renaissance recorder, as well as chinese hulusi music, these will span an octave an a note!
|
|
|
|
Post by xindi on May 14, 2012 20:40:58 GMT
Yes, it is really interesting. Members who came to dizi via Irish flute seem to have some big qualities (more flexibility, good habits to learn melodies by ear, good ornementation habits) which make problems to members who came to dizi via Boehm's flute and who have maybe only one big quality: the embouchure and tone accurency. Hmmm. Not looking good for me. I came to the Irish flute via the dizi (well, I did play a mean Penny Whistle until I binned it as a kid when the fipple came off and I thought it was broken *eek!*). I really can't play decorations by ear. Even when I play ITM, most people (kindly) comment that I seem to have an amazing skill of food processingevery ITM reel or jig as a clone of a non-ITM skeleton track lol. Yes I came to the dizi from the Boehm alto flute, but that was years ago....I lost the embouchure; the tone, and the accuracy lol. But I do have a very impressive collection of flutes to make all the Imelda Marcos flute collector wannabes freak |
|
|
|
Post by amarena on May 14, 2012 22:24:24 GMT
Wow it's interesting to see how many people that actually do both! Well I've just started to play ITM a few weeks ago, when I got a penny whistle for my birthday actually. I've always love both Chinese flute music and ITM so in the end I ended up trying to learn both at the same time  (not a good idea actually but oh well...). The An Dro's the only tune I can say I play quite well on my penny whistle, and that can be played only using an octave... Anyway, just for fun: www.youtube.com/watch?v=38s4mVY2b_Y -> the Chieftain's trying to play Chinese musics. It's really funny I tried to play my Dizi today again and the sounds it makes ressembles more to an elephant's or a cow's mooh than to a flute's sound. It's really a harsh sound and when I tried to put the real Dimo, it's even worse. There is this buzzling sound that hurts my ears. In the end I remove the Dimo and just put back the cellophane tape. Anyway with or without Dimo the sound's anything but clear and vibrant. And it's very very loud too. I don't know how people can make it sounds nice. I hope that it's just because of my playing that the sound is harsh and loud. I just hope that it's not because of the flute's not of a good quality one. |
|
|
|
Post by edcat7 on May 14, 2012 22:42:52 GMT
There are good dizis and great dizis but I haven't yet come across a really poor sounding one. Even my cheapish intermediate 'Carrot' C has is qualities..loud and ease of play. Do you have erjiao?
The buzzing sound is because the dimo is on too loose. However after the dizi is warmed up the dimo will tighten a little.
|
|
|
|
Post by xindi on May 15, 2012 22:13:11 GMT
Happy 17th birthday You've got the lists of pieces here I guess? www.celticscores.com/instrument/Flute/These ones have a classical bias, and might be more tricky to start tackling: en.scorser.com/S/Sheet+music/flute+sonata/-1/1.htmland: www.justsheetmusic.com/search/?q=szymanowskiThere's more than the Szymanowski Etudes/Metopes etc. I'm just going through a Szymanowski phase for the past 20 years that's all I had a Copeland which I (foolishly) sold. Now I have a Reyburn which personally, I think is the worse possible penny whistle I've ever doled out money for. It has so much chiff it sounds like I'm trying to demolish a building. I barely play pennywhistle at all. I really hate the incredibly huge middle right finger hole. It's so big I really can't cover it even with my middle knuckle. Btw - to hit the second octave in the pennywhistle, blow harder, and bring your tongue higher towards your palate when you blow. You should find you 'split' the note into high octave and low octave note. That's a good starting point, to refine, and practice the blowing until you get a 'purer' high octave note. You'll notice your tongue pushing forward/upwards more, as well as your glottis tightening and more pressure for the high octave. It's worth practicing, that way you can read any two octave music The dizi will take more practice to control the airstream. It might take 1/2 year or longer to get a really smooth crescendo/diminuendo control for the dizi. I get the impression that the dizi is the most popular chinese flute, but it is way less elegant than the soundscape of the plaintively beautiful xiao. That's true. The problem I have, is that most of their pitches are so shrill and earpiercingly loud, that I find it rather unpleasant to listen to indoors. My highest tolerable pitch is the Eb dizi in real wood, rather than bamboo (rather bright and deafeningly loud). I'd only twigged in the past 2 years, that real wood dizis were a brilliant idea and had their own specific strengths over and above bamboo, as great as bamboo sounds. |
|
|
|
Post by davidmdahl on May 15, 2012 23:20:45 GMT
Xindi, you actually sold your Copeland whistle?! I have several that will only be sold by my heirs. Great whistles! I bought a G Copeland used years ago, and I expect the former owner is still kicking himself.
I am intrigued by the wood dizi options. After some less-than-successful experiments with wood Vietnamese flutes (sao), I decided to stick with bamboo for Asian flutes. If I get a chance to try out a wood dizi, that is one thing. It is hard to pay over $100 for a pig in a poke. The dream is to take my choice from a bunch. We will see.
Best wishes,
David
|
|
|
|
Post by Flolei on May 16, 2012 7:34:01 GMT
Care of a wooden dizi may really be easier for players who lives in European countries. It is easier to fight dry air and weather variations with a wooden instrument, it's a fact.
One thing that I don't like in the idea of buying a wooden dizi is that - if I'm well informed - flutes must be from bamboo in the traditional classification of Chinese intruments. But maybe there're provinces in China which never respected this principle. Does someone here know something about this?
|
|
|
|
Post by Blue on May 16, 2012 17:05:23 GMT
There's no strict rule on what material the dizi should be made of. It could be bamboo, jade, bone, metal, wood, or plastic. But bamboo is abundant compared to wood as China is now heavily deforested (and apparently wood from the rainforests of southeast asia is taken instead). According to an old music teacher of mine and one shop keeper, a bamboo flute could last for about 30 years. At least that shop keeper has been able to play the her same bamboo flute for 30 years. The main idea is that wood, purple bamboo, bitter bamboo, and other types of material all have their unique sound characteristics, and perhaps one shouldn't be too dogmatic or evangelical about one's preferred medium. One site remarks that wooden flutes can be too loud and dense that other members of your dizi class would throw eggs at you in protest: tw.page.bid.yahoo.com/tw/auction/1210687900(此笛非常不建議初學者上團體課. 因為這把笛只要隨便一吹就可以將其於上課的10多人的笛音蓋過.整堂課只能聽到這把笛音.別人可能會丟雞蛋抗議 ) Performances in temples tend to use bitter bamboo because one doesn't want to listen to too dense sounding music. You'll also notice that most of the famous dizi players out there seem to mainly use bamboo as their performance of medium. There's also Watazumi Doso (海童道祖) who plays unlacquered Hotchiku (does resemble a dongxiao) because he believed that "that to truly understand nature and oneself, one had to use an instrument of the most raw and natural origin." |
|
|
|
Post by xindi on May 16, 2012 21:03:59 GMT
Yup - I didn't appreciate it - never being into ITM at the time and I needed a decent open hole Boehm flute which cost $$$ more. By the time I returned to playing a whistle, it was too late. I tried a Howard (terrible!), MK and others. The Reyburn I bought on recommendation, and it is proving to be just as horrible as the others. Maybe it's me - but you're right to hold on to the Copelands. I'd moved upto flute playing...never thinking I'd miss a whistle.
Well Copeland resumed some production, making high whistles, but it's the low D which I loved. Those aren't in production and they sell for at least US$500+ for a crabby spit covered 10+ year old second hand one :/
|
|
|
|
Post by xindi on May 16, 2012 21:16:40 GMT
Amarena - are you a Kells fan? www.burkewhistles.com/product.php?productid=16173&cat=277&page=1The Burke is the one I wished I'd come across before the Reyburn. Care of a wooden dizi may really be easier for players who lives in European countries. It is easier to fight dry air and weather variations with a wooden instrument, it's a fact. One thing that I don't like in the idea of buying a wooden dizi is that - if I'm well informed - flutes must be from bamboo in the traditional classification of Chinese intruments. But maybe there're provinces in China which never respected this principle. Does someone here know something about this? Flolei - that is so true! And a plastic flute is so much easier to care for than a wooden one In the past few years I've travelled across China - the real wood dizi occupies the higher niche end of the dizi flute market: they are all priced substantially higher than their bamboo counterparts. I presume this is reflected in the need for dremels/woodturning machines to carve the dizi tube out of a wooden block, whereas bamboo, can be harvested, cut and cored easier. I've only come across a few bamboo dizis costing more than the wooden ones. I guess the famous players use bamboo ones from the past few decades, and this is what is marketed to us, however the wooden ones require real craftsmanship too! Yes the purists in the Taoist tradition will reject any deformation of the structure of wood, and insist on bamboo - this tradition lives on for the dongxiao. Not so much for the dizi. |
|
|
|
Post by xindi on May 16, 2012 21:23:01 GMT
Wowsers. That's grossly overpriced for such a poorly finished wooden dizi flute.  The bore design should be smooth as glass in the high end wood turned flutes: this is much harder to do. I suppose those scrambled eggs would make a nice base for fried red talapia |
|
Well, when I saw the demonstration of this flute by the lady on the musical instrument store, the sounds is on a higher pitch when she played on the first octave... At least she told me that it was the first octave. 
