Guzheng string length question

[citaran]

Hello,

I'm trying to make my own guhzeng. I'm happy I have the body measurements down but can't find information about correct string lengths anywhere. I mean string length from lower bridge to top of instrument bridge.

Could someone tell me what they are or point me to where I could find out? I plan to make a 21 string one, possibly 18.

Thank you

[jetz320]

Do you mean bridge height? They vary from high to low pitch. The higher octaves have shorter bridges while the bass strings have higher bridges. No bridges are the same, each string has a specific bridge and they vary from about 2-3 inches. Taller is better.

[citaran]

Nope sorry.

I'm planning on making one of the slightly smaller travel sized instrument. Either with S shaped bridge or just straight.

Not sure if you can insert images on here but i'll try.

[citaran]

So from one bridge to the other. I dont mean the bridges for individual strings, I guess bridge is the correct term.

[davidmdahl]

In a guzheng, bridge is used to describe the movable "^" shaped pieces that determine the sounding length of each string. I would use the term "rail" to describe the ends of the strings. Or you could ask, what are the sounding lengths of the strings without the bridges.

I can take a look on my guzheng tonight. You might also check with the people on the guzheng forum:

www.chinesezither.net/forum

Best wishes,

David

[citaran]

Thats very kind of you. I could probably manage just knowing three length, shortest, middle and top, the more the better though.

I checked the forum you mentioned but couldnt find the specifics, despite searching.

James

[xindi]

May 7, 2012 23:18:52 GMT citaran said:

I'm trying to make my own guhzeng. I'm happy I have the body measurements down but can't find information about correct string lengths anywhere. I mean string length from lower bridge to top of instrument bridge.

Could someone tell me what they are or point me to where I could find out? I plan to make a 21 string one, possibly 18.
....
I'm planning on making one of the slightly smaller travel sized instrument. Either with S shaped bridge or just straight.

Wow. That's quite a mission. It sounds even more challenging as a mission, especially if you don't have a 3D template to work from.

Have you reviewed the information about the string lengths and tuning from:

www.cigarboxnation.com/group/ChinaCBGs/forum/topics/chinese-pentatonic-scales-lets

You may be able to undertake scale adaptation for fretted string instruments, and try and apply it theoretically to the guzheng, but it sounds rather challenging. If you read their conclusions, the builder was not particularly happy with his own efforts, but perhaps that was down to his lack of guzheng playing skills too, so that he didn't find his instrument particularly 'oriental' in sonic signature.

Btw the terminology you are using, of the 'lower' bridge to the 'higher' bridge will confuse everyone trying to help you. The 'bridges' of the guzheng are moveable - and are probably of the lest interest for you in building your guzheng. These do not correspond the the bridge/saddle of a guitar, and the tuning pegs of a guitar, which gives the string length for a fretted instrument.

Perhaps you are referring to the strung distance for each of the 4 octave pitch strings (+1) for a 21 string pentatonic guzheng. I only have the names in chinese, and I can't read nor translate them for you (sorry!).

The string lengths which you're after, need to be measured accurately by marking, and removing them from the guzheng (maybe for all 21 strings) since the bridge arches the strings, making them arch and so a linear measurement would only be an approximation.

I'm not particularly keen on taking all 21 bridges off, to measure each string's linear distance from the left S saddle to the right tuning box lol. Any volunteers?

In any case, the fact that you're trying to scale down to make a travel size guzheng, and not a standard 21 string concert size guzheng would question whether any of the help you get for the above is helpful: since you would have to apply a geometric scale-ratio estimate, which will be completely inaccurate for tuning for your overall dimensions.

Maybe the freedom of the moveable bridges should compensate for most building errors/deviations, and the good news is, you only need to tune each string to one pitch at any one time - i.e. no octave playing on the same string, and so no precise tuning required, as you would for a smaller fretted instrument, like a guitar etc.

If you do try and work out the string lengths with your method, then using a fret position calculator (for a fretless guzheng, which assumes the moveable bridges can be positioned to generate the string pitch):

www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/Fretting/i-fretcalc.html

You could work out your scale length for your guzheng, substituting the pitch string requirements, to formulate the positioning of your 'S' bend. A linear left saddle is possible - I tried a Japanese one made of plastic, although it was very inelegant and rather clunky, with the bridges all sliding off the guzheng accidentally during play.

Not sure if anything I've said helps (probably not) - perhaps it might help to research and solidify your ideas more concretely, otherwise all you'd end up with is a coffin shaped box making funereal pitches :/

[davidmdahl]

May 8, 2012 0:34:22 GMT citaran said:

Thats very kind of you. I could probably manage just knowing three length, shortest, middle and top, the more the better though.

I checked the forum you mentioned but couldnt find the specifics, despite searching.

James

On my guzheng, the lengths from rail to rail are 51.5" at the last bass string, 45.5" middle, and 41" at the first treble string. These measurments are somewhat rough since I took them with a tape measure on a guzheng with bridges still installed. Still, they should give you an idea.

It would be easier for you to make a guzheng if you had access to one. There are structural bits that are hard to get from a photo or simple measurements done on the fly.

I did not expect that you would find plans for a guzheng at the link I provided. but it would be a good place to ask your questions. Carol, the forum administrator and proprieter of the hosting website is very knowledgeable and might know where to send you.

Best wishes,

David

[citaran]

I'm not aiming for quite the traditional sound. I won't be using the same woods as ones made in China, probably something like a Cherry body and Spruce soundboard. Strings will be the metal enclosed in nylon form. I was first considering building a more simple instrument but really like the moveable bridges and string bending you can use one the Guzheng, it opens up more options.

It would definitely be easier if I had an instrument to see, I dont think I can really access one here though without purchasing one for 350 pounds (im in uk).

I've managed to find quite a few different instrument measurements, but they didnt include the open string length. Your rough measurements should be very helpful if im unable to have luck with more researching. I believe the travel size guhzengs tend to be about 8" shorter overall, mostly sacrificing the decorative end below the curved S shape bridge as i've been calling it.

Dave, the forum you mentioned looks good. I tried registering there on, I think last Friday but am waiting for an administrator to unlock my account still =/.

Thank you for all the help.

[citaran]

Still cant get onto the forum.

Anyone know if its still working?

[davidmdahl]

Presuming that your account has not yet been activated at www.chinesezither.net/forum, you might contact Carol using the information on the following page:

chinesezither.net/contact.html

I don't know if Carol is out of the country, but she does get busy.

Best wishes,

David

[citaran]

Thanks =)