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Post by charliecharlieecho on Jul 29, 2007 4:53:40 GMT
What I'm saying is that this is supposed to be informal chat and talk (like in a pub or café). Of course you should say, 'oh, this was from so-and-so' when relevant and appropriate, but if you forget the sources and utter it anyway, you should not be penalised or be given stick for it. And 'breach of copyright' is claiming a certain substantial piece of knowledge is your own when it is not, or using a certain piece of knowledge as if it was your own when it is not. It is different from expressing a short statement (copyrighted or not) in passing because you are neither claiming it is your own nor claiming it is not your own, unless it is so obvious that someone asks or knows, then by which you would either inform or confirm when prompted. You are not reproducing the entire work as well, word for word, as though you've written it spontaneously. Then why do you wite about Facebook being the only 'safe' place and that this site is not 'safe',and that censorship is needed in case 'we all all get blown up'? None of that is necessary if the Facebook forum and this forum are really about 'informal chat and talk (like in a pub or café)'. In your message of 4:47 on June 29 you write 'It is fine if you translate bits of it for personal use. The only thing you will get stick for is if you post it on the internet'. No one can give you stick except for breach of copyright of defamation. Syburn says that 'living in China has given me a rather odd view of interlectual copyright'. Add it all together and the impression is that the reason for moving to Facebook is that it will enable copyright material to be shared without the owner's permission.
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Post by SCWGuqin on Jul 29, 2007 5:12:24 GMT
Not so, CCE.
I think Charlie is referring also (perhaps primarily) to freedom of expression. He's not the only one to notice that the qin community can be reactionary, with deference and hierarchy permitting many kinds of unreasonableness.
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Post by Charlie Huang on Jul 29, 2007 7:59:41 GMT
I think you got the wrong end of my stick (so to speak), CCE.
Facebook is 'safe' because not a lot of people know about it, unlike this forum. So, we can literally criticise, analyse and discuss without much fear of being harassed or censored (for now).
Here, we have had publicity et al and a number of people outside our circle know about it, therefore we are being watched like a hawk and anything we say that's remotely 'critical' et al tends to end with me getting stick from someone or I have to censor certain bits. Take for example the thread with the disgruntled beginner who bought a qin from Mr A and was thrown out of a session by teacher B. In the ideal world, we would have no need to censor names et cetera, but obligation is placed upon me to do so in case this forum gets a lawsuit thrown at it and forced to shut down (no matter how unlikely it may sound, I'm not in the mood to mix in with this stuff TBH). And when I talk about censorship, I'm more on about cersoring 'qin blasphemy' rather than about the stuff that this discussion has geared towards to.
And there is certainly no 'move to facebook'. It is a separate entity in itself and should you choose to go there or not is frankly none of my business and I don't really care. What I'm saying is that it is more 'open' (for now). Nothing to do with copyright. And I'm not exualting facebook either, I'm just expressing a personal perception at the state-of-affairs. I'm sure it isn't that clean cut but at least we talk about some stuff without fear. The only thing I want is people to be reasonable, understanding and sensible about stuff without the need to write a tome of rules and regulations to ponder and meander about.
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Post by charliecharlieecho on Jul 29, 2007 9:42:23 GMT
Then I think you have to express yourself more clearly.
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Post by SCWGuqin on Jul 29, 2007 16:05:16 GMT
btw regarding "lawsuits"--so far I've been baffled by the very presence of the term. Thinking back to the old qin forum, several people talked about lawsuits when all that was at stake was people saying, basically, "I don't like person x" or "person x has style y." What is remotely legally relevant about things like that? Of course maybe people sue each other in China for nonsensical, petty reasons--I do recall teacher B (whom you mention) actually being sued by his father for filial impiety.
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Post by Charlie Huang on Jul 29, 2007 18:53:48 GMT
Indeed. I find dropping terms like that tend to detract from the main discussion at hand. Personally, I'd rather not talk about such things since you tend to get into endless loops of meaningless waffle leading to no where, but they seem to crop up and stick on like a turd that just wouldn't wash off...
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Post by charliecharlieecho on Jul 29, 2007 20:55:35 GMT
I agree with Chalrlie's message #55 on this. It's best to leave personalities out of things.
As to SWCGuqin's comment, part of this may be due to different legal regimes. The freedom of speech clauses in the US constitution allow people to say things that would lead to actions for libel or slander in England or Wales. But then sensibilities differ anyway. If I were to call my child after my brother my brother'd be pleased, but if I called him after my wife's brother her brother would be offended.
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Post by Charlie Huang on Jul 29, 2007 22:05:10 GMT
Well certain British humour (like sarcasm) is seen as offensive to Americans when taken the wrong way.
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Post by Si on Jul 30, 2007 7:19:39 GMT
wow - what a storm in a tea cup!
CCC's mentioned these people that spy/watch on this forum - so that must mean they dont actually take any useful part in our section of guqin community. Thats sad.....so sad for the community.....
Also in a forum or pub it need not be necessary to cite sources cos here is an informal places. But like in a pub you can ask - hey who told you that. Its simple to me.
Legally that is an interesting concpet as to what rights anyone has here, with this forum being very international (a few frequent members on each continent in seems). Im English so making fun of leaders and figureheads is normal to my culture. But i could not imagine the China legal system could throw much moral weight outside of China.
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Post by Charlie Huang on Aug 7, 2007 20:24:17 GMT
Well, all in all, it is a can of worms you don't want to open at the end of the day. it is best to 'leave it'.
I'll think I'll stick to playing qin from now on and leave the writing to the those who are brave enough to do so. Much safer and much less stressful.
"once scarred..."
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Post by SCWGuqin on Aug 7, 2007 22:27:24 GMT
Woo, I guess that means me!
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Post by Charlie Huang on Aug 8, 2007 9:14:19 GMT
You are more braver than me!
You deserve the Victoria Cross, or should that be the Guqin Cross...
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Post by shoppingchinanow on Aug 9, 2007 4:28:39 GMT
For a woman who is a taotal layman to music, how can she translate the books into English that be can understood by others? If it can be easily done, I think there must have been English version available already.
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Post by hezekiahpipstraw on Aug 9, 2007 6:56:23 GMT
As far as I know the only qin book that's been translated into English is the Meian Qinpu, which Fredric Lieberman translated unfer the title "A Chinese Zither Tutor" (1983, University of Washington Press, ISBN 0-295-95941-X)
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Post by Si on Aug 9, 2007 8:49:30 GMT
Anybody tries to give you any problem regarding guqin just tell them FUCK off. Must stand up to bullies - especially when then are from such a "geeky" group (no offense to us all here haha).
If we were all here discussing the the greek harp and a load of greeks started jabbering away in greek (aggressively) would we give a damn! The world is too open now - its too late for these custodians of the qin - they need to share it just like the rest of the world shares its culture.
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Post by Charlie Huang on Aug 9, 2007 9:13:55 GMT
Let's just leave it that shall we?
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