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Post by edcat7 on Oct 25, 2011 20:01:33 GMT
I have a six year old second hand erhu, hence the bow is the same age. I would imagine the rosin has been on the bow that long too.
I'm using Pirastro goldflex rosin. I have a feeling it's time to change the bow.
Do I: Clean the bow and then reapply the rosin try a different rosin get a new bow
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Post by sanmenxia on Oct 25, 2011 21:43:32 GMT
I don't even have bows that are newer than ten years old!
I think unless the hair (with rosin) doesn't have enough friction to set the strings to vibrate properly then the bow should still be OK to use as it is. Most of the rosin comes off anyway when you play, so just apply whatever rosin you like onto the hair.
I've read that some people have cleaned the hair and removed the rosin but I've never done it.
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Post by George on Oct 25, 2011 23:57:58 GMT
Hi Ed, Norman Pickering, an important stringed instrument researcher, couldn't find any evidence for bow hair wearing out with use, and recommended cleaning rather than replacing it if not too many hairs had broken. Luthier David Burgess does report wear from use, though even he doubts it's responsible for most changes in playing quality. At www.violinist.com/discussion/response.cfm?ID=18371, Andrew Victor says that the easiest way to clean your bow hair is with the "alcohol swabs" sold individually sealed in boxes of 100 by every drug store for about $2 for 100 swabs. The key is to understand what the alcohol does to the rosin and other junk on the bow hairs. The alcohol dissolves the rosin, so the alcohol, with the rosin it has dissolved must be removed immediately with a dry cloth. I find it takes 4 to 8 swipes of the alcohol pads to clean a bow's hair well enough. There is enough alcohol on each swab to use it for two swipes (one with each side of the pad), each immediately followed by use of the dry cotton cloth. I consider that I am finished when the yellow rosin no longer shows on the dry, white cotton cloth. Removing the soiling from finger-skin oil that collects on the hair near the frog is the least of the good things such cleaning does for you. Next it is important to let the bow hair dry completely before re-rosining it. You can check the hair for dryness by touching it to the back of your hand; when it no longer feels cool - it's safe to re-rosin it. It will not be pristine, as when the hair was brand new, but it will still need to be rosined to play properly. I have found that using alcohol cleaning of bow hair I can keep a bow going just fine as long as it has enough hair to play properly. This is important to me, because I have a lot of bows. Also, when I have experimented with many different rosins, it has been important to get (some of) them off my bow hair. Use causes rosin to melt into bow hair and this can be detrimental to sound and technique on many bows (however, for some things it might help some players). If you'd rather use bottled alcohol, note that, though he believes "70% or 91% rubbing alcohol (isopropyl alcohol) works as well as denatured ethanol", some rubbing alcohol contains additives like soap that you wouldn't want on your hair. The differences between better-quality rosins aren't that large; Pirastro Goldflex should be fine. For what it's worth, among real obsessives, Baker's rosins (which aren't generally available) seem to be liked best, with Larica's in second place and the cheaper Bernardel in third.
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Post by edcat7 on Oct 31, 2011 20:18:54 GMT
I've cleaned my bow with alcohol wipes as advised and rosined properly (10 min on each side). The results are startling.
My teacher played a tune on it and I was immediately transported back to ancient China - like a scene from Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon.
Oh, how many years will I have to practice to obtain the same spirit and subtlety
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Post by George on Nov 1, 2011 17:18:09 GMT
Great!
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Post by George on Nov 4, 2011 0:39:29 GMT
Another "for what it's worth" - one violinist says Goldflex sounds "thinner and more edgy" than most rosins.
A couple of rosin makers (including Pirastro) also advise against using rosin more than a year old, but lots of players are happily using ancient cakes of Liebenzeller so I would take that with a pinch of salt.
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Post by davidmdahl on Nov 4, 2011 4:27:28 GMT
How would you know how fresh a cake of rosin is? There's no "use-by" on my rosin at least. My Pirastro rosin is five or six years old at least, and working fine.
Best wishes,
David
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Post by edcat7 on Nov 4, 2011 6:04:49 GMT
What rosin would you recommend for a softer, more mellow sound
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Post by George on Nov 4, 2011 13:15:46 GMT
Hi David, if your Pirastro rosin doesn't have a use-by date on it, it's past its use-by date . They started dating them a while ago. The (small) differences in sound you get with different rosins will never be quite predictable, because they depend in part on the barely-conscious feedback loop involved in your bowing. A change in the friction you feel and the tone you hear will effect your bowing, which will change the friction you feel and the tone your hear... Moreover, I don't know how well the behaviour of violin rosins maps onto erhus, with their completely different strings and bow. (Because its hair is much tighter, a violin bow really is part of the same vibrating system as the strings and instrument, which is why people will spend $100,000 on one.) All that being said, I find my Larica Gold sounds very smooth. Larica Gold I will sound smoother than II.
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Post by sanmenxia on Nov 6, 2011 16:43:47 GMT
Hi David, if your Pirastro rosin doesn't have a use-by date on it, it's past its use-by date . They started dating them a while ago. The (small) differences in sound you get with different rosins will never be quite predictable, because they depend in part on the barely-conscious feedback loop involved in your bowing. A change in the friction you feel and the tone you hear will effect your bowing, which will change the friction you feel and the tone your hear... Moreover, I don't know how well the behaviour of violin rosins maps onto erhus, with their completely different strings and bow. (Because its hair is much tighter, a violin bow really is part of the same vibrating system as the strings and instrument, which is why people will spend $100,000 on one.) All that being said, I find my Larica Gold sounds very smooth. Larica Gold I will sound smoother than II. Hmmm...maker of rosin says rosin only lasts for 1 year... There are millions of people out there using older rosin, and haven't noticed any difference, probably.
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Post by davidmdahl on Nov 6, 2011 16:55:03 GMT
If you Google on "does violin rosin go bad" without the quotes, you will find a good list of violin forum threads on this topic. As on our forum, the opinions are all over the place. Some have used rosin that is decades old, and others replace their rosin yearly.
Interesting.
Best wishes,
David
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Post by edcat7 on Nov 6, 2011 17:28:05 GMT
From the above violin forum the comment I liked most was:
'If violin rosin lasts only a year why do manfacturers make them in such large blocks?'
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Post by George on Nov 6, 2011 23:31:12 GMT
By the way, the importance of the feedback loop is greater than one might think. It turns out that (according to Jan James) a violin's perceived responsiveness is determined not by its actual responsiveness - the time it takes for the string to settle into Helmholtz motion - but by the volume and pattern of its harmonics above 4kHz, which are the frequencies the player's brain pays most attention to when modulating bow pressure. Instruments that feel unresponsive are simply those that cause the player to bow harder than necessary. Actual responsiveness, which on the A-string of a good violin is usually between 70 and 120 milliseconds, becomes a factor only when playing very fast runs of notes.
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